Japanese Maple Pruning Basics
- Thread starter Dr3z
- Start date
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
A thick crap tree is much worse than a thin crap tree. Better to have a thinner tree with good structure IMHO.
There is no one way to grow every bonsai so no use trying to make generalizations to fit all cases.
Nodes dictate where shoots will grow. If the nodes are at appropriate distance apart for good branching or sub-branching then it is OK to keep that section but with smaller trees and further out on branches we expect to have branching much closer together in which case keeping the section is counter productive.
Thickness is one aspect of bonsai but ramification is another equally important part. Don't sacrifice one in favor of the other.
I read this to mean that leaving a desired branch in place with the goal of allowing it to thicken and develop while it has large gaps between nodes is short sighted, it would be better to trim back and wait for summer growth before doing that.
@Bolero
Selfishly hoping you still post those pics!
Bolero
Omono
Attachments
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
One problem I see here is that this tree has gone from a finished bonsai at one time backwards to where it is now, and the intermediate size branches are missing from inbetween the point where the major branches would normally divide into two or three subdivisions and the twig ramification at the outer canopy. You have in their place stubs, ugly stubs with rat's nests of twigs too long and droopy. This is a artifact of hard trimming followed by hard trimming followed by hard trimming, ad infinitum. Right now you have this condition of a finished trunk and a dozen leaves as a canopy where there needs to be a dozen intermediate branches and a gross of short twigs supporting a canopy. You need a canopy to be in concert with the trunk, but you can't get there from here.
You need to chop (See, I can use that word, too) the ugly stubs from the hind-side of the front and begin to build the missing intermediate minor branches which is going to take a couple years or more. That will require removing all but 2 or 3 buds strategically located on each ex-stub. Then you can build the same array or 3 or 5 twigs from each of those intermediate, minor branches which will support your finished canopy. Only then can you yearly do a Walter Pall hedge trim. To the same extent that you have branches that have logical tapers from the trunk to the minors to the twigs can you have a tree that looks natural. Stubs don't work.
The WP hedge trim is only done on a tree where all the underlying branches are finished. The hedging never gets close to the "branches", only twigs are cut. You have five years worth of architecture to build on that trunk before you do the WP slice.
You need to chop (See, I can use that word, too) the ugly stubs from the hind-side of the front and begin to build the missing intermediate minor branches which is going to take a couple years or more. That will require removing all but 2 or 3 buds strategically located on each ex-stub. Then you can build the same array or 3 or 5 twigs from each of those intermediate, minor branches which will support your finished canopy. Only then can you yearly do a Walter Pall hedge trim. To the same extent that you have branches that have logical tapers from the trunk to the minors to the twigs can you have a tree that looks natural. Stubs don't work.
The WP hedge trim is only done on a tree where all the underlying branches are finished. The hedging never gets close to the "branches", only twigs are cut. You have five years worth of architecture to build on that trunk before you do the WP slice.
Bolero
Omono
On the number 2 photo of Trunk you might consider Scoring, with a very sharp knife, down the front of the trunk to create a wedge opening on the trunk to show some age and experience of being an older Bonsai, just a thought....all else is OK......
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Then maybe you shouldn't comment. This is textbook Japanese Maple growth habit.
Japanese maples wake up in spring and they're in a rush to fill as much space as they can with branches ...and use internode-length to try to help them take over (their part of) the world. Some folks allow them to run and chop them after they've bled off energy, forcing them to use energy to bud back at the base and start over. Others advocate pinching the tips of the growth out, forcing growth further back to strengthen ...or possibly for new buds to form. As you'd imagine, there are different aesthetics produced with the different approaches. They're both attempts to manage the vigor of this species so that the internode-length is manageable and able to transform it into a beautiful canopy.
What. In. The. World?
You'd be wasting perfectly good material through your own ignorance.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I must have been thinking about this thread while looking at my shitty growth ficus about a half hour ago!
Sad that you'd like to become confrontational instead of addressing the issue.
Sad.
Sorce
Sad that you'd like to become confrontational instead of addressing the issue.
Sad.
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Please don't miss the above.
The Fact that I haven't owned a maple with this shitty growth habit is testament to how easy it can be for someone to knot own one.
The pictures are such that if you haven't seen this poor growth for Yourself, you could easily chalk it up to poor pruning and maintenance.
Poor Ficus Benjamin.
Good ficus Benjamin.
Poor Siberian Elm, recently cleaned up in the Frelms thread, so, you actually have to look at the older cut growth to see the poor habit. And holey branch.
Good Siberian Elm.
I have studied every Japanese maple I've ever come across. Not just looked at, but studied.
I have never ever ever ever in the landscape or in a pot, seen that 4 thing this OP maple is jutting out.
More important is my in depth study of old pruning places, and recognition of subsequent growth, which allows an understanding of what does what. I put much effort into these studies.
I have never seen a pruning that would account for that growth, without the assistance of this poor growth habit.
I have kept this potted Freemani for some time.
And kept a larger specimen I collected and put in the ground to study for I believe 2 growing seasons.
My potted one isn't very vigorous.
The one in the ground was much more vigorous, throwing 6 buds at each node.
Even if I "lost the battle" with that vigorous one, it would never have ended up looking like this, without that extra shitty growth habit.
If we assume folks were smart enough to only utilize good growth habits from the beginning, we can see how rare it would be for us to find Japanese Maples with this growth habit.
Also, dude is on Canada. My Elms from Frary have this growth.
Perhaps it is a simple adaptation to a shorter growing season that makes plants do this. It makes perfect sense. More foliage, quicker, without the need to extend much, which keeps from winter dieback.
Please don't try to shut down conversations like Adair. It's terribly poor form.
Sorce
The Fact that I haven't owned a maple with this shitty growth habit is testament to how easy it can be for someone to knot own one.
The pictures are such that if you haven't seen this poor growth for Yourself, you could easily chalk it up to poor pruning and maintenance.
Poor Ficus Benjamin.
Good ficus Benjamin.
Poor Siberian Elm, recently cleaned up in the Frelms thread, so, you actually have to look at the older cut growth to see the poor habit. And holey branch.
Good Siberian Elm.
I have studied every Japanese maple I've ever come across. Not just looked at, but studied.
I have never ever ever ever in the landscape or in a pot, seen that 4 thing this OP maple is jutting out.
More important is my in depth study of old pruning places, and recognition of subsequent growth, which allows an understanding of what does what. I put much effort into these studies.
I have never seen a pruning that would account for that growth, without the assistance of this poor growth habit.
I have kept this potted Freemani for some time.
And kept a larger specimen I collected and put in the ground to study for I believe 2 growing seasons.
My potted one isn't very vigorous.
The one in the ground was much more vigorous, throwing 6 buds at each node.
Even if I "lost the battle" with that vigorous one, it would never have ended up looking like this, without that extra shitty growth habit.
If we assume folks were smart enough to only utilize good growth habits from the beginning, we can see how rare it would be for us to find Japanese Maples with this growth habit.
Also, dude is on Canada. My Elms from Frary have this growth.
Perhaps it is a simple adaptation to a shorter growing season that makes plants do this. It makes perfect sense. More foliage, quicker, without the need to extend much, which keeps from winter dieback.
Please don't try to shut down conversations like Adair. It's terribly poor form.
Sorce
bwaynef
Masterpiece
My comment was based on the understanding of one of your sorcisms that had me thinking you hadn't had any Japanese maples. I don't quite understand how you've had a Japanese Maple and not seen similar growth before, ...which coincided with my understanding of what you wrote.
I stand by what I said though. This seems pretty textbook growth pattern for unmanaged spring j-maple.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
You should carefully wire those new shoots so they’re not standing straight up.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I am laughing now, but I am still bothered by my attack driven by..."drivel" to be honest/"Sorcism".
I am trying to work on my seperation of feelings behind these texted words, but it is proving difficult.
I just hope my notion is correct, the entering and exiting a "conflict" with good people, only strengthens our bond. You are certainly one I care for this to happen with.
Sir.
Sorce
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
really enjoyed this @Walter Pall
