Japanese black pine in colorado zone 5a

handle yourself around here.

Its all in how it's read.

It really has nothing to do with me.

No one else mentioned JBP on Ponderosa.

The fact that I spread.....

Do what works best in your area....

Seems useful to me.

Unless we are Not here trying to make the best possible trees.

This is no more dangerous than watching most of YouTube on bonsai.....

Except here, folks can correct me. ..


But.....

Getting in my ass and missing the point.....
Because maybe we domt feel up to joking today?

C'mon.

Sorce
 
Its all in how it's read.

It really has nothing to do with me.

No one else mentioned JBP on Ponderosa.

The fact that I spread.....

Do what works best in your area....

Seems useful to me.

Unless we are Not here trying to make the best possible trees.

This is no more dangerous than watching most of YouTube on bonsai.....

Except here, folks can correct me. ..


But.....

Getting in my ass and missing the point.....
Because maybe we domt feel up to joking today?

C'mon.

Sorce
Nobody is getting in your ass. I was merely asking you to reassess the value of what you offer here. Spamming every thread even when you have nothing valuable to add is not helpful. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
 
No I do not have Sorce on ignore. I ignore no one. I consider Sorce a friend. I don't know for sure what is going on with my account but I have found going through the current posts many of the ones I have subscribed to seem to slip through my email.

I seem to be having the same issue. I am not being notified of new posts in some instances.
 
nothing valuabl

To me.

Not taking the time to protect a JBP on ots own roots is time I can spend with my kids.

Valuable?

To me only?

Eh.

I love my kids!



We don't douse our trees with gas and light them on fire......

Because it is easy to see passed the idiocy in it.

Some things aren't as obvious, but can still be thought passed.

Advocating thought.

Also useful!

Its all in the reading.

Sorce
 
Just because people use them doesn't mean they are better than JBP for Bonsai! People can only collect what is available and growing wild in nature in America. But to imply Pondarosa is a better Pine than JBP or JWP for Bonsai is, well... False.
Same with RMJ vs Shimpaku. If JBP and Shimpaku were growing wild in our moutians, people would chainsaw the Ponderosa to get to the JBP... walk right by the panther piss smelling RMJs with the leggy growth to get the Shimpaku. I find no value in your post when the guy was asking specifically for advice on how to care for a specific tree in his area... you know Sorce, you do not have to reply to EVERY POST ON THIS FORUM! This would be a better place if you did not honestly. If you have some valuable insight, please feel free to share but you seem to be obsessed with posting in every thread and spreading poorly reasearched misinformation which is dangerous when people are asking for advice. Please, for the sanity of us all, reassess how you handle yourself around here.

Let’s see your work , real work :tree progressions , not the shit falling out of your mouth, and then we the people will decide what to believe from you ....I don’t think I’ve seen you post one tree that was worth a shit
 
How much cold can an average Black Pine take? Questioning the 100 seeds and the contest I entered. I'm supposed to be zone 6 but not this year.
I've had JBP see and do fine with sub zero temps, both as landscape trees and as potted trees heeled in to the ground outside. I see them most often rated as zone 5 trees, so zone 6 should be ok with typical winter protection ie. heavy mulch, shade and wind protection.
 
I grow them here in zone 6 , just recently put them in cold frame , no issues , they stay frozen most of the winter
 
Let’s see your work , real work :tree progressions , not the shit falling out of your mouth, and then we the people will decide what to believe from you ....I don’t think I’ve seen you post one tree that was worth a shit

If you haven't seen me post some good trees you haven't been paying attention. I post some pretty raw stuff too but I have trees in all levels of development.

I am comfortable with my experience and my abilities and reply to people when I can help. If you want to see my trees that are worth a shit, there are some examples here, should be easy to find. Let's see your blue ribbon winners Mr defendasorce. I really don't care what you think of me, there is not a person on this forum who can deny that what I said about Sorce is true. He posts non sensical BS ON NEARLY EVERY THREAD, many times giving downright dangerous advice to people who need the help. That has nothing to do with my mastery of the art form. Sometimes the truth hurts, and I am sorry I waited so long to say it. No need to get all violent in your response to me, I don't think anything I said was out of line to your or to him. FACTS are not an insult... it takes a real friend to tell someone when they are fucking up. Think it through. Would you rather people laugh about you behind your back when your fly is open or tell you "hey man, might wanna zip that shit up".
 
I love me only.

Its all in the reading.

Sorce

Pretty easy to quote only portions of someone else's post to make it suit your needs. Ignore all the substance, single out what you take issue with and play the defensive? Clearly Jriddle has bought what you are selling. Y'all make a cute couple. LOL

This forum should be much easier for me to read going forward.
 
Pretty easy to quote only portions of someone else's post to make it suit your needs. Ignore all the substance, single out what you take issue with and play the defensive? Clearly Jriddle has bought what you are selling. Y'all make a cute couple. LOL

This forum should be much easier for me to read going forward.

Keep trolling troll , your still looking for some bad material on me huh? haha I don’t care , I rarely post and have nothing to prove to anyone , there’s no need for bashing , the dude is obviously extremely passionate and trying to progress his craft, at least he’s creating something, pots and more , all I’ve seen you do is complain, kiss a lot of ass , and try to rip people off selling someone else’s trees at way over inflated prices , cmon
 
Pretty easy to quote only portions of someone else's post to make it suit your needs.

Please do not accuse me of that.

Everyone knows.....
Spamming every thread

I only need single out the untrue.

nothing valuable

Is it not a fact that a wicked Ponderosa trunk with JBP foilage is more valuable than a JBP seedling?

Or a second rate import JBP?

Or a JBP that MAY need more protection than Pondy JBP? (Personal preference )

But here.....the most valuable thing anyone needs to know. And the written "out" for BS like this.
of course.....its your path.
Just pointing out some rocks should you chose to kick them out of your way

His path. His choice.

That was a really well thought out post.

My feelings aint hurt.
But it does suck to not get the information across.
And to be told there was nothing valuable.

Cuz then people may start believing that Utter Bullshit.

Daniel San didn't want to learn to paint.
Or wax.
He wanted to fight.

Forgive me for assuming this guy just wants dope trees that are easy to care for.
When he asked only one question.

But....
ANY INFO. AT ALL WILL HELP

Bold text Bullshit?
Apparently that just wasnt true was it?

Lance is an alcoholic, falls into the category of "any information".

Don't go getting stuck on that though!;)
Its just truer than the bold text!
Can't argue that fact.

Sorce
 
I'm wondering how much of a difference the origin of the seeds makes. Seeds sourced from the northern extent of JBPs range are likely to be more cold tolerate than the trees from the southern extent of the range.

This is true with red maple, Acer rubrum. It has one of the widest ranges of American natives but the smaller leef verities found in the south are not as cold tolerant as the northern trees.

Since you are growing from seed I wonder what would happen if you left a portion of your seedlings unprotected their first winter. Any that survived would be the ones that are more cold tolerant.

Then again they could all die or any that survived could have but just due to luck. I wouldn't leave all your seedlings out.

So, no real answers but some stuff to think about.
 
How about some particulars in your over-wintering plans, @mickey12 ? I lived in/around the Springs for a number of years in the late 80's, early 90's and still visit regularly some I'm familiar with the weather in all four seasons. Didn't grow bonsai then, but did landscape work, so I've got a little idea of what would be suitably hardy for the area. @M. Frary points out two good candidates for growing in your climate as their hardiness is a lot more reliable. Having said that, I've been growing some JBP here in NH for 5-6 years now, so it certainly can be done, (c'mon man, I'M growing 'em).:D:D:D:D:D:D



:)
I agree that it can be done, it is important to remember that when we talk about the cold tolerances of species we are really considering the soil temperature that the roots are in. Very different for a tree in a pot above ground as opposed to a tree in the ground. When i started growing JBP i asked a japanese grower who has grown JBP in Canada for over four decades about the temperature requirements. He told me that he had lost JBP planted in the ground when the temperatures fell below -10 degrees Celsius for more than ten days to two weeks. This is in keeping with the information i have received from several Bonsai masters.
I provide winter protection for most trees in pots if the temperatures fall below 23 degrees Fahrenheit or (-5 degrees Celsius). Peter Warren suggested this in his book Bonsai (2014). For those who wish to work with Black Pine in colder areas a good suggestion would be Pinus Nigra, the Austrian Black Pine which is much more cold tolerant.
The zone is a good guideline but not as important as the care we are prepared to provide and the resources we have available. Each species provides special opportunities for particular techniques and characteristics that can be developed.
 
Keep trolling troll , your still looking for some bad material on me huh? haha I don’t care , I rarely post and have nothing to prove to anyone , there’s no need for bashing , the dude is obviously extremely passionate and trying to progress his craft, at least he’s creating something, pots and more , all I’ve seen you do is complain, kiss a lot of ass , and try to rip people off selling someone else’s trees at way over inflated prices , cmon
Sounds like you are quite a fan of mine. All I have seen you do is talk shit and stick your nose into something that had nothing to do with you.
As I said, I am fine with the trees I have and those I have posted. We all have some crap and some good ones- most of what I post here is trees I don’t think are quite right and need some advice. Judge me all you want, you don’t know me.

I sell trees on an auction site where people set their own price- How can that be over charging? The value of any item is determined by what someone is willing to pay.
I have always been complimentary of your trees in the past, and still to this point haven’t said a cross word to you... So, keep going trashing me man. Just makes you look bad. I was right in what I said and it seems insulting from you towards Sorce if you feel you need to “protect” him or something.... Like you don’t think he is smart enough or strong enough to do it for himself? It is odd you even feel the need to do so to me... I wasn’t bashing him as much as fed up with the same thing on every thread. I fixed it... I hope we are all passionate or we wouldn’t be here.
 
I don’t really care honestly , just seems like every time I see a post from you it’s one of the above , I’m not defending anyone , I really don’t know any of you other than a couple on here . Suck it up and keep moving
 
I agree that it can be done, it is important to remember that when we talk about the cold tolerances of species we are really considering the soil temperature that the roots are in. Very different for a tree in a pot above ground as opposed to a tree in the ground. When i started growing JBP i asked a japanese grower who has grown JBP in Canada for over four decades about the temperature requirements. He told me that he had lost JBP planted in the ground when the temperatures fell below -10 degrees Celsius for more than ten days to two weeks. This is in keeping with the information i have received from several Bonsai masters.
I provide winter protection for most trees in pots if the temperatures fall below 23 degrees Fahrenheit or (-5 degrees Celsius). Peter Warren suggested this in his book Bonsai (2014). For those who wish to work with Black Pine in colder areas a good suggestion would be Pinus Nigra, the Austrian Black Pine which is much more cold tolerant.
The zone is a good guideline but not as important as the care we are prepared to provide and the resources we have available. Each species provides special opportunities for particular techniques and characteristics that can be developed.
This is a valuable piece of information.

When I lost my first JBP after winter I started searching. Received one of two best info here on forum that was just what you're saying.
The second good info was from one Czech bonsai forum, from one skilled gardener. He stopped growing and grafting them for landscape purposes, because 1) their winter hardiness and 2) in winter after a longer warm spell, they started pushing candles and following cooling down killed them.
 
I had JBP here in zone 6. Gave them all away.
1. Hardiness zones are at the very best, a starting point. It drops below -20F here at times.
2. Winter protection when they are dormant is not a problem. I kept mine outside, pots covered in mulch, with snow cover and they did fine. However, being a temperate coastal species, their DNA seems to bring them out of dormancy earlier than truly cold hardy pines. Mine would turn color and break bud while the native pines were still fully dormant. Late freezes hammered them. Not killed, but I’d lose an entire year of growth and be left with a very weak tree.

In Colorado, I’d suspect you would be facing the same issues. Stick with cold hardy and/or native species there, such as Ponderosa, Lodgepole, Limber, Mugo, Scots, Austrian Black.
 
I'm wondering how much of a difference the origin of the seeds makes. Seeds sourced from the northern extent of JBPs range are likely to be more cold tolerate than the trees from the southern extent of the range.

This is true with red maple, Acer rubrum. It has one of the widest ranges of American natives but the smaller leef verities found in the south are not as cold tolerant as the northern trees.

Since you are growing from seed I wonder what would happen if you left a portion of your seedlings unprotected their first winter. Any that survived would be the ones that are more cold tolerant.

Then again they could all die or any that survived could have but just due to luck. I wouldn't leave all your seedlings out.

So, no real answers but some stuff to think about.
It is true to a certain extent. Korean sourced Japanese Black Pines are much more hardy than the pure Japanese Black Pine.
 
I'm also in Zone 5b. My experience has been that when I leave a JBP outside under just a wind shelter with my yews, pondys, and other botanical equivalents to musk oxen, it survives but struggles all the next season. I now keep a JBP under a little extra protection, trying not to let it take temperatures below 0 F.
 
Lance is an alcoholic, falls into the category of "any information".
Sorce





Nice of you to save your insults for someone not involved in your shenanigans!!!:mad:
200.gif



Get some help.....slagging folks that got your back is weak. Figured you to have more sand than this.....
I can handle my shit and was putting in work when you where gettin' rolled for your milk money....
Enough of your friggen' yappin', save your breath for when you've got a tree or pot to show.
I still got you, just don't be side-swippen' my shit, son.:)
 
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