Japanese Black Pine, from Seed!

[bonsaichick]

I'm currently trying to grow 36 little Japanese Black Pine trees from seeds! I have them placed in the peat pellet 12 cell seed starting trays from Home Depot. 12 have sprouted well and have needles, 10 are just starting to pop up, and I think that the others won't every grow and need to be reseeded. The most developed ones have been sprouted and the needles have been separated from the seed husk for about a week. When should I transplant them to bigger containers?

What size should I use? I've been looking at small 2 inch and 4 inch pots. Should I take the tiny trees out of the peat pellet? Or should I just leave it and surround it in something like kitty litter and let the pellet break down on its own?

~Thanks for all of your help!~

 

[tom tynan]

4" square pots should do fine. It is best not to grow the seedlings in a damp medium such as peat; however if you have some growth in the seedling you should be able to get the seedling out and then into a coarser material like pumice or lava or turface. You may looose a few seedlings in the process and not sure where you live in terms of your weather this time of year. If the seedling shows a center bud and stong needles at the top and a woody brown stem (not green or violet) then you should be able to move from the peat into coarser material. Good luck...Tom

 

[Anthony]

B.C,

welcome to Bnut.

We also raise J.B.pine seed in the smallest size seed trays, but mix the peatmoss with 5 mm gravel, 50 / 50 by volume.
It takes about 6 months for the seed to master the soil mix, and then a gentle test to see if the seedling can lift out all the soil in the little containers of the seed tray.

If it comes out with the soil in one mass [ usually the shape of the container ] it is then potted on to a 3" x 2.5" porous round clay pot.
The soil mix is 75 gravel [ 5 mm] / 25 peatmoss by volume

If you can, watch your watering and wait 6 months, to re-enter the entire peat pot into a clay pot at around 3 to 4 inches, with a simple 5 mm silica gravel.

Two suggestions -

[1] get some more seed for another try.

[2] You can fertilise about a month after germination with 1/3 strength fertiliser, into moist soil.

Good Luck.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[edprocoat]

Is this the right time of year where you live to start seedlings ? I guess its spring in Riverside.

ed

 

[bonsaichick]

Oh, I'm not worried about it being too cold. They're placed on the windowsill inside. When I check my weather panel in the room, it's usually right around 70 degrees, and 65% humidity. Is that an acceptable range for the time being?

 

[jeanluc83]

If you are anywhere north of the Equator it is the wrong time of the year to start JBP from seed.

Good luck but I'm afraid you might have set yourself up for failure.

Welcome to Bnut.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

IMO, I would pick up some prebonsai JBP in various stages to work on while these come up.

 

[Anthony]

B.C,

this response comes from Trinidad, in the West Indies [ Caribbean ], our max temperature is 90 to 93 deg.F for about half an hour in Summer and the rest of the year it can be 90 to 68 deg.F [ ha ha it went down to 68, yesterday sometime around 10 a.m lots of rain and cloud cover .]

Our lowest low is 70 to 68 deg.F.

So after 25+ years of growing J.B.pines from seed, they obviously do not need frost / snow.

However, what the seedlings do get is morning sun until 11 a.m., and then dappled or bright light until sun down.
Watering is only in the morning, two applications by watering can, soil drains freely.
We also have breezes all year long.

They are healthy, but because of our climate, handling candles, leaf pulling etc. training, we have to make up our own rules. So I can't help you there.

Remember also, tropical sunshine is stronger than the sunshine in Miami in summer.

Best of luck.
Good Day.
Anthony

*Image is a J.B.pine from English sourced seed [ Morgans ] germinated 1994.
Still learning.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to crazy!

Its not the best time to start seeds.

But it sounds like a good time for you to make seedling cuttings.

If you can keep them alive.....they should be outside..... You may be off to a good start.

Pics?

Sorce

 

[Cmanz]

I would move them, without disturbing the peat pellet and roots, into 4 inch plastic pots and surround the pellet with pumice. Your best bet for pumice in your area is Armstrong garden center. That is the only place that I have found in the 909 that has it. I would then put them out side in partial sun. The weather around there is so funky that I haven't found it to be a problem for seeds with the 90degree random days all winter. The trees in my yard would break buds in December thinking it was spring. Just bring them inside on the few cold nights. Good luck.

 

[bonsaichick]

Ok. So I have some pumice, and my newly sprouted trees have a center bud among the original needles that extended. Is it time to move it? Will it stay too wet in the peat pellet, or no?

~Thanks!~

 

[Vance Wood]

Oh, I'm not worried about it being too cold. They're placed on the windowsill inside. When I check my weather panel in the room, it's usually right around 70 degrees, and 65% humidity. Is that an acceptable range for the time being?

I have not noticed that anyone has told you that growing Pines in the house is usually a recipe for disaster. They are temperate trees and need to be outdoors.

 

[Anthony]

So Vance,

I gather morning sun ........dappled to bright light until sundown, is not a hint as to ----- grow outdoors - ha ha ha.
{apologies I had to tease you.]

Steph is going to have to experiment, which is why I suggested to her, get another batch of seeds, with the learning, a good many seedlings might die.

On IBC there is a guy growing at least one J.B.pine indoors over in either Singapore or Vietnam.
Good Day.
Anthony

 

[Vance Wood]

So Vance,

I gather morning sun ........dappled to bright light until sundown, is not a hint as to ----- grow outdoors - ha ha ha.
{apologies I had to tease you.]

Steph is going to have to experiment, which is why I suggested to her, get another batch of seeds, with the learning, a good many seedlings might die.

On IBC there is a guy growing at least one J.B.pine indoors over in either Singapore or Vietnam.
Good Day.
Anthony

Yes that may be true; I know a grower that grows Procumbens Junipers indoors under light and has done so for many years. He is the only person I know of who can get away with it. So the point remains; it may be possible to do it by one out of how many thousands of growers but that does not mean it would be wise to recomend it to someone who is only starting out in bonsai and probably does not really know a concave cutter from a ham sandwich.

 

[bonsaichick]

I wouldn't think there would be so much hostility over 36 little seeds. Thanks for the encouragement, I guess.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

IMO, Vance is not hostile, just gets to the point. And his advice is very good advice.

 

[Anthony]

Steph,

no hostility, just teasing Vance

You have to attract the attention of the ones who suggested Pumice.
Perhaps send them a p.m.

Never used pumice and can offer no further advice, but will try to keep an eye on your progress.
Water retention is what you have to watch.

Growing anything else ?

Wishing you all the best!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[bonsaichick]

Anthony,

Thank you so much for your compassion (really). I've been thinking about buying some more seeds, but different types. I still have 464 more Black Pine seeds in the packet. I've been thinking about maybe starting some Japanese Maples, or other classic Bonsai types. I'm just trying to have fun and see what I can do. I'm no Bonsai expert, and my livliehood doesn't depend on my hobby!

 

[KennedyMarx]

I wouldn't start seeds until late winter or early spring. You can start them indoors using a seedling heat mat then transfer them outside when there's no threat of frost. Pines need to be outside year round, so if you only have space indoors you should choose another type of tree to work on like a ficus.

That being said, where you live probably doesn't get that cold so you could probably just put the seedlings you have outside now and not worry about winter killing them.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wouldn't think there would be so much hostility over 36 little seeds. Thanks for the encouragement, I guess.

I'm sorry I did not mean to be hostile and I'm sorry I came off that way, I only offered you the truth.