Is NPK really just NPK??? Your Thoughts and Experience Please...

[JudyB]

Of which product?

The question was how much Cal-Mag+ I use. I use it as a supplement because I water with rainwater almost exclusively.

 

[LanceMac10]

Your not really getting the "full experience" if you've denied yourself the sweet, stinky breeze from a good fish fert carpet bombing....that and the kamikaze wasps/bees....

Feed with whatever, just feed!!!!!

 

[SU2]

I don't know about that. Before I started using organic ferts, I still found tons of myco in my pots during repotting. Maybe if you use way too high of a concentration.

Can confirm- first specimen I ever collected was put in a wooden box with nothing but NAPA's DE and fed nothing but miracle-gro's blue kool-aid, and it was the only container I've ever had actual mushrooms growing from! Would literally get several mushrooms a week from the substrate surface lol!

 

[SU2]

A lot of bacteria know how to handle chemical nutrients.
So do fungi.

The problems occur with the amounts some people use; too much will kill a tree, not just the microbes.
There's also the issue with high P in most nutrient mixtures. In nature, phosphorus is scarce, and bound with soil particles. It takes energy to release those. In nutrients and pots this is not the case. High P concentrations in our soil can cause microbes to die, phosphate is a preservative to some extent. Our local kebabs are full of it, and kebab has almost been banned by our version of the FDA because of their phosphate content.

Organic nutrients contain fibers and organic compounds (carbohydrates) that act as 'sugar source' for microbes when broken down. But the other elements that release from it, are the same as chemical/inorganic nutrients. Snacking versus balanced meals. Juggle those two and you'll have a happy soil.

I like the idea of juggling like that I use an organic mixed-through (biotone) new substrates, and then use ~50/50 miracle-gro instant // osmocote extended (both high-nitro formulas)

Anyways I'm glad you've posted this because I was referred to this thread for a concern along those lines, I wasn't thinking too much P was dangerous to the plant I was worried about it pushing my bougies to flower more than I wanted, but in any case I've been using "pH-Down" (phosphoric acid) when my rain-barrels run dry, as my tap-water is 8pH....I haven't had any chlorosis issues, but it's driving me nuts not knowing how much phosphorous I'm adding when using phos.acid to adjust pH!! Do you happen to know how *available* the phosphorous in phosphoric-acid is? Like, if I'm using 1tsp/gal of the stuff I'm hoping I can figure-out what that'd be equivalent to in terms of fertilizer, ie is it like a tbsp/gal of 0-5-0 or 0-60-0?

For what it's worth, I didn't notice much increase in blooming when I started using the stuff, though I've only heard about phos triggering flowering in bougies (haven't seen it myself as I'm just growing them out, I aim to have no flowers til they're further developed!)

 

[EPM]

I like the idea of juggling like that I use an organic mixed-through (biotone) new substrates, and then use ~50/50 miracle-gro instant // osmocote extended (both high-nitro formulas)

Anyways I'm glad you've posted this because I was referred to this thread for a concern along those lines, I wasn't thinking too much P was dangerous to the plant I was worried about it pushing my bougies to flower more than I wanted, but in any case I've been using "pH-Down" (phosphoric acid) when my rain-barrels run dry, as my tap-water is 8pH....I haven't had any chlorosis issues, but it's driving me nuts not knowing how much phosphorous I'm adding when using phos.acid to adjust pH!! Do you happen to know how *available* the phosphorous in phosphoric-acid is? Like, if I'm using 1tsp/gal of the stuff I'm hoping I can figure-out what that'd be equivalent to in terms of fertilizer, ie is it like a tbsp/gal of 0-5-0 or 0-60-0?

For what it's worth, I didn't notice much increase in blooming when I started using the stuff, though I've only heard about phos triggering flowering in bougies (haven't seen it myself as I'm just growing them out, I aim to have no flowers til they're further developed!)

I have essentially the same issue as you but haven't fully figured out an answer yet. But maybe what I say will help you. Like you when my rain barrel runs dry I have to use well water with high pH. For a while I was using Neptunes harvest fish and seaweed(2-3-1). I spoke with the manufacturer directly and this product is stabilized with phosphoric acid and has a pH of 3.5. According to them when mixed with water at 1 oz per gallon of water (pH 7) the resulting solution has a pH of 4.0 to 4.5. I was concerned that if I constantly used it as essentially a pH down that maybe I would give too much phosphorus to my trees. I don't think that's the case though. You could probably reduce the strength of the solution and still get a low enough pH to make your water usable. And knowing that the base phosphorus level is 3 you could at least have some idea of how much additionally phosphorus you are giving your plants. Might be worth a try if you don't mind the smell.

 

[EPM]

I like the idea of juggling like that I use an organic mixed-through (biotone) new substrates, and then use ~50/50 miracle-gro instant // osmocote extended (both high-nitro formulas)

Anyways I'm glad you've posted this because I was referred to this thread for a concern along those lines, I wasn't thinking too much P was dangerous to the plant I was worried about it pushing my bougies to flower more than I wanted, but in any case I've been using "pH-Down" (phosphoric acid) when my rain-barrels run dry, as my tap-water is 8pH....I haven't had any chlorosis issues, but it's driving me nuts not knowing how much phosphorous I'm adding when using phos.acid to adjust pH!! Do you happen to know how *available* the phosphorous in phosphoric-acid is? Like, if I'm using 1tsp/gal of the stuff I'm hoping I can figure-out what that'd be equivalent to in terms of fertilizer, ie is it like a tbsp/gal of 0-5-0 or 0-60-0?

For what it's worth, I didn't notice much increase in blooming when I started using the stuff, though I've only heard about phos triggering flowering in bougies (haven't seen it myself as I'm just growing them out, I aim to have no flowers til they're further developed!)

Also when I was looking into pH down products I recall seeing the pH down from dyna gro was a 1-5-0 product. Maybe not what you are using but might get you in the right ballpark.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I like the idea of juggling like that I use an organic mixed-through (biotone) new substrates, and then use ~50/50 miracle-gro instant // osmocote extended (both high-nitro formulas)

Anyways I'm glad you've posted this because I was referred to this thread for a concern along those lines, I wasn't thinking too much P was dangerous to the plant I was worried about it pushing my bougies to flower more than I wanted, but in any case I've been using "pH-Down" (phosphoric acid) when my rain-barrels run dry, as my tap-water is 8pH....I haven't had any chlorosis issues, but it's driving me nuts not knowing how much phosphorous I'm adding when using phos.acid to adjust pH!! Do you happen to know how *available* the phosphorous in phosphoric-acid is? Like, if I'm using 1tsp/gal of the stuff I'm hoping I can figure-out what that'd be equivalent to in terms of fertilizer, ie is it like a tbsp/gal of 0-5-0 or 0-60-0?

For what it's worth, I didn't notice much increase in blooming when I started using the stuff, though I've only heard about phos triggering flowering in bougies (haven't seen it myself as I'm just growing them out, I aim to have no flowers til they're further developed!)

I made a coarse calculation in a thread about pH- phosphoric acid somewhere. Less than two weeks ago. I think it would come in handy for you. But I don't remember it's name, nor the poster.

 

[MichaelS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't synthetic fertilizer defeat purpose of organic fertilizer in that it kills the good microbes and fungi through the salt deposits?

No

 

[MichaelS]

Would these microbes be able to digest any form of
nitrogen offered?
.

Different kinds use different N types. Organic N is mineralized by one kind into ammonium. Ammonium is converted to nitrate by nitrifying bacteria. Composting bacteria use both kinds. Trees can use both kinds too. Some plants can use all three types, Many prefer one over another. Acid loving plants tend to prefer ammonium. If the pH is higher than neutral, the nitrifyers become active and ammonium levels drop. Urea is converted to ammonium in 2 days by a different kind of bacteria. Urea can be considered ''organic''. Bacteria don't care where the N comes from but they need it if they are to increase their numbers. The composters also need carbon.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I made a coarse calculation in a thread about pH- phosphoric acid somewhere. Less than two weeks ago. I think it would come in handy for you. But I don't remember it's name, nor the poster.

Oh right, it was in the thread you started about the stuff ;-)
@SU2