If you were 37 ...

Celtis -- local or imported
56 in September.

Seeds for trunks need large pots - 1/3 55 US gallon
barrels or some form of ground growing.
1 to 3 years on my side - Tropics

Go for the first 6 branches.
Often the Design only needs 6 branches and many branchlets.
Good Day
Anthony
 
I were 37, I'd skip the seed (and did when I was that age). Invested my time in larger, more advanced stock. More rewarding for me. Seeds are a waste of time and grow stuff for the next generation, not for you.
Understandable, but I like the process of growing from seed. It is a slow road but it is awesome. I have a Scotts pine I started from seed about 30 years ago that went through a lot of neglect and was attacked twice by sawfly larvae and also had a large gall removed. It is regenerating now with a ton of new buds for next spring. Being a collector of plants of all sorts with several hundred to count for, this Scotts Pine is my favorite, not because of its current looks or condition, but because I grew it from seed. There is that.
 
Do what I do. Buy a lots of seedlings from Matt O and plant them in pots. I did that 12 or 13 years ago. Now I have many tridents, black pines to work on. Now at 42 I still have family to tend to so no serious bonsai for another 5 years. Here are some examples of my trees. Will post pics later
 
I've started seeds every winter indoors for fun for the past few years. I'd recommend JBP, trident maple, J. Maple and zelkova. it's fun growing from seed but keep in mind it will take a very long time before they become anything, some will die, some won't turn out well and if you are like me many will be sold off!

I second what rockm said that while it's fun to start things from seed, buying quality material will advance your bonsai skills faster and will give you better trees faster. I'm at the point where i try to spend my money on one quality tree a year and no other real tree purchases.
 
I were 37, I'd skip the seed (and did when I was that age). Invested my time in larger, more advanced stock. More rewarding for me. Seeds are a waste of time and grow stuff for the next generation, not for you.

I know it's not what you're looking for, but at 37 time's a wastin...believe it or not. If you're going to plant stuff, PLANT saplings, chop them initially, grow them on...
is this meant to be your sole project and only bonsai, or just a side-project among many others? for me, the answer to this question dictates the response

-if you have many bonsai projects and now would simply like to start one from seed, what you choose is less important in the overall picture of the satisfaction you will obtain over your bonsai career

-but if this is going to be you're only project, my question would be, why seed? get yourself a well-started cutting (e.g. from Mark Comstock) and start reading about how keep it healthy and develop it. (starting from seed or cutting is not something that people tend to get right on the first try, and if you plan to only do it once in your life and then develop that tree, I would skip the propagation step).
While i understand where you are coming from and agree for the most part. The way i see it this topic can almost split the forums. Lets say everyone starts flooding the forum with year old seedling pics and storys, would the forum be less about bonsai and just growing seeds? But, how would i know what side of the line i want to be on if i haven't tryed both?

Im mostly looking at the seeds as another tree at this point. And then one day they might end up in a forest planting together.
 
While i understand where you are coming from and agree for the most part. The way i see it this topic can almost split the forums. Lets say everyone starts flooding the forum with year old seedling pics and storys, would the forum be less about bonsai and just growing seeds? But, how would i know what side of the line i want to be on if i haven't tryed both?

Im mostly looking at the seeds as another tree at this point. And then one day they might end up in a forest planting together.
The problem with this is that you will find that those small "trees" that aren't doing much, are taking up most of your resources--time, attention, fertilizer, soil---for no real return in bonsability, or the daily dose of esthetic enjoyment that older trees bring.

They are a drain, ultimately...They are not trees.

I know people feel very strongly about seeds. Some are personally insulted when you say that growing them out is mostly a waste of time and resources. Some, like you, seem to have some romantic notion that they're going to somehow teach you something you won't learn otherwise and they hold some kind of magic.

Thing is, all of that, IS MOSTLY CRAP and growing from seed is boring and tedious.

You already know how seeds grow. If you do actual bonsai, you will learn everything seeds will "teach" you, but save a decade or so of time DOING ACTUAL BONSAI.

FWIW, some of the best bonsai vendors out there--Bill V. and Matt O. spring to mind--already grow seeds into seedlings and they have varieties you could never get. You can buy those and have a forest in two years...
 
growing seeds =/= just only growing seeds. I think most of us have projects of all types going on, with trees in many different stages.

And if any of you are addicted like me, you have yourself too many trees already :D
 
I've started coast live oak, tan oak and Metrosideros (NZ Christmas Tree?) from seed/acorn, with the intent of keeping them shohin. The oaks are fast for oaks, but slow in general. Three years in and they're just taking up space waiting for a decent trunk. The Metrosideros are thickening up pretty fast. Might only be 5 yrs from seed before the trunk is thick enough to start building limbs. So as RockM says, they are an amusement if you have enough bench space. Might be worth it if they're a species you cant access otherwise.
 
Thing is, all of that, IS MOSTLY CRAP and growing from seed is boring and tedious.
That is fine for you and those who also feel this way, but to project it onto others; is that much different than telling others what a bonsai should or shouldn't be? I am not trying to be uppity here as I am indeed on a site about bonsai and I recognize that everyone here is strongly bonsai oriented. I am a plant lover and collector and while that does not make me a bonsai expert, I do know a thing or two. I can absolutely guarantee that you and many many others on this forum are much better at producing show-able bonsai than I am, but I do get it right now and again. More importantly, this is my passion and I have been working with plants since I was six. Plant propagation is part of my passion and understanding the simple act of germinating a seed can in some cases be a daunting task. I do it because I can. Where else can a get 50 Huangshan Pines for less than $5 or unlimited Ginkgo for free? For me there is a great deal of satisfaction to know I have hundreds of plants that I have started either by cuttings or seeds, and that I can train them, sell them or give them away. I absolutely love bonsai, even though there was a large part of my life when I was not actively practicing it. But my love for plants is far greater than my love for any single facet of horticulture.
I am not changing anything here, nor is it my desire to do so. But when somebody expresses a desire to propagate their own plants, to a greater or lesser degree, please don't assume that they will find the process mostly crap, boring and tedious. They can find that or their own if that is so. I do appreciate that you are honestly giving your views to these wanna be propagators, but please don't piss on our parade.
Respectfully Yours,
Rob
 
Join the JBP contest and take it from there perhaps?
 
I were 37, I'd skip the seed (and did when I was that age). Invested my time in larger, more advanced stock. More rewarding for me. Seeds are a waste of time and grow stuff for the next generation, not for you.

I know it's not what you're looking for, but at 37 time's a wastin...believe it or not. If you're going to plant stuff, PLANT saplings, chop them initially, grow them on...
Yup.
At 63 I'm putting down a lot of seedlings but they are really not meant for me. All my life wherever I go I leave a lot of beautiful trees behind. Still I enjoy watching the trees grow from seed through their stages. For example the 50 BCs I recently put down in my yard can live for decades or even centuries. I only get to see them the first few years of their lives but that's enough for me.
My problem is that, after just one year into bonsai, I'm still likely to kill the thousand dollar bonsai. I will buy them when I can keep the $50 ones alive and well for a few years.
 
@Warpig - I'm 64 years old, I would take to heart the advice of @rockm - he is correct, raising trees from seed is the "nurseryman's phase" of bonsai, and the techniques you would learn have little to do with handling and developing mature bonsai. My goal when I started was to have a tree or two that were nice enough to be entered into shows like the National Bonsai Show in Rochester NY. I wanted mature bonsai. Raising seedlings teaches you very little that applies to exhibition bonsai. Yes, every bonsai at some point came from a seed germinating somewhere.

That said, I assume you have a mixed collection, with some older trees, and raising from seed is just a side project to burn off some excess energy. I would only plant seed of trees that you can not find easily or at all in the bonsai trade. And by not being available, I mean it is a desirable species too. For example, right now you can not find 15 year old or older nursery stock of Pinus rigida, the Pitch Pine, that has been grown for bonsai, where you can find 15 year old Japanese Black pine raised by people such as Telperion Farms and in California.

You are in Ohio, so work with trees that are winter hardy in your area. Pinus rigida, Pinus virginiana, Pinus banksiana, all have good bonsai potential but are not available.

Here is an idea, we all have an ugly wisteria somewhere, that shines only for the 2 weeks it is in bloom, and otherwise is hidden. I saw a kiwi vine grown as bonsai, Actinidia deliciosa, and in bloom they are nice, and with fruit they are quite nice. Gnarly bark. There is a winter hardy in northern Ohio kiwi relative Actinidia arguta, sometimes called 'Kiwiberry'. Nice rough bark as it ages, unusual flowers in spring, later than wisteria, but before grapes. And nice clusters of grape size fruit that taste very much like Kiwi, but with smooth skin and slightly sweeter. Seed and or young vines are available, you can propagate by cuttings for plant seed. In 5 to 10 years with a little wire these can be nice pre-bonsai.

You could learn grafting, and graft a nice cultivar of Japanese white pine, P. parviflora, and do low grafts, into the root system of JWP scions onto understock of eastern white pine, P. strobus. The resulting grafted trees would be much more cold tolerant than JWP on JBP understock, and would have a better tolerance of wet midwestern and Lakes States winters. One issue with own root JWP is the roots do not like our wet, heavy snow with regular thaws, winters. You are as likely to loose an own root JWP in winter due to wet roots in winter as you are to other issues in summer. Eastern white pine will survive flooding in late winter if it doesn't last too long into the spring. If you select a nice blue foliage cultivar like 'Pentaphylla Azuma' or 'Cleary's' or any of the other nice ones, you could have a saleable crop.

But seriously, I wish now I had invested more in older stock, closer to exhibition quality than I did. I ended up fooling around with too many sticks in pots for too many years. Keep seedlings a side project that does not monopolize too much of your energy. And make those choices of seedlings count. Don't bother with commonly available stock. Elms - a dime a dozen, maples - equally available. Japanese black pine, 15 minutes on the interweb and $100 to $200 and you can have a nice 10 to 20 year head start over starting with a seedling.

So for a seed project, pick something not available in the bonsai market.

52 here. Bamboo grows really fast... 🙄

There is a short chapter in Bonsai Techniques II, by John Naka about creating bamboo bonsai. Naka used one of the ''full size'' bamboo species for this technique. He used black bamboo which can mature to over 30 feet and 2 inch diameter culms. The technique works, I've tried it. I successfully dwarfed one culm of a clump. It is a demanding technique, requiring daily attention during the 2 weeks that a shoot is rapidly elongating. Look it up and you will have an interesting, challenging bonsai to make. Because the attention required was beyond my ability to pay attention to detail, in the long run, I failed, and lost my bamboo planting before I got good photos. But I say enough success to know it is possibly if you have your spring free during the several weeks that bamboo shoots.
 
Some, like you, seem to have some romantic notion that they're going to somehow teach you something you won't learn otherwise and they hold some kind of magic.
I can only speak for myself but for me it would be less about learning something and more about being able to start training from the beginning.

Having said that i guess i am looking at it as a means to a better product in the end. Which is kind of silly, and the best way for me to improve my craft from here would be to keep doing it and learning. So im thinking this is my plan for now
If you do actual bonsai, you will learn everything seeds will "teach" you, but save a decade or so of time DOING ACTUAL BONSAI.
 
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