I got an itch to play with wood.
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
You're not half bad, it's just a bitch to get you, because everyone else wants you to build them a stand. Some day when you are only 20 stands behind, put me on the list, ok ?
keep it green,
Harry
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Thanks Harry..I think that means something???????
I have looked at stands all over the net. I have probably seen well over a thousand stands in my lifetime and probably have a picture file of as many as well as Kokufu, Gafu, Sakafu and Miyabi books of some of the best stands in the world. I don't see anyone here in the states stepping up to make the stands that will lend themselves to artistic merits in a good high quality exhibition.
If there are those builders please post a link to high quality stand builders so I can take a look.
The links in Greg's thread asking about stand builders produced some links but they are not building high quality artistic stands like these here.
Cheers, Al
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It was meant as a complement, just my weird way of posting after a couple. I would love to have one of your stands.
I could display a Marco tree, in a Dale Cochoy pot on one of your stands, kool.
keep it green,
Harry
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Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I agree, but I didn't want to say anything negative
Similar to just about everything having to do with bonsai, you can't appreciate the really nice stuff until you have some experience with lower-end stuff.By the way, I did find some decent stands and slabs out there. Plus, Si is loaning me a stand for my demonstration so I am no longer in a panic.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I'm afraid if you wish to put a tree on one of my stands it needs to be in a Japanese pot!
No slight to Dale, his pots are great...but they ain't Japanese!
I just purchased this signature Bigei for a certain Cal. juniper. 12" x 9" x 4"
Attachments
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I agree, but I didn't want to say anything negative
By the way, I did find some decent stands and slabs out there. Plus, Si is loaning me a stand for my demonstration so I am no longer in a panic.
True but I have never pulled punches and was always disapointed that I could see the stands I wanted but never had access to them. I solved the problem by making the kind of stands I wanted at the quality level that I sought. I have been able to make a few friends happy with a stand or two but it gets harder with the price of hardwoods and now our Govt. has banned a whole list of exotics that can no longer come to America. As the current stocks are depleted we will lose coca bola, wenge, paduak, and rosewoods. The list is much longer but these are some of the woods I was usuing in the past that I can no longer get.
How thick is the slab? I find that many slabs are too thick. I have a pretty good assortment of unfinished wood slabs that I have started to finish. I may have a few for sale as accent slabs since they are extreamly thin. I will post a pic or two later after the birthday party.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Well all bets are now off
A week ago I thought I purchased some slabs and a couple stands from DaSu Bonsai Studios in Iowa. Six days later I just got the news that at least one of the stands that I purchased had already been sold. No news on the slabs. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see what (if anything) I receive.I also tried to buy a stand from Artisan Bonsai Stands. The reply I received was that he had already sold all the stands on his web site "many times over" and was backed up with current work.
I think there is a business opportunity here for someone
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I think there is a business opportunity here for someone
I would give up my work if I thought I could sell $80,000.00 dollars worth of stands a year but I think thats a niche for my retirement when making a stand a month would give me beer money.
Just so I'm reading anyone right what would a person be willing to pay for a stand like this?
Would one cough up $600.00 for this?
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is worth it at least Al. The key question would be whether one would be willing to pay that for the stand. You have to remember this is still furniture and good furniture is expensive. In fact most furniture today is made of trash like particle board MDF and similar man made (cheap) materials but still the pieces are very costly. Don't sell yourself short unless you are desperate for the money.
Your stands are made of the best materials and craftsmanship, something you would pay twice as much for in the commercial furniture market if you could find it. No doubt you have all heard the saying "They don't make things like they used to"? Well I can guarantee you that in the modern furniture industry that old axiom is no where demonstrated more vividly than todays manufactured furniture---one reason I decided to retire when I could not when I had to.
I wouldn't for only one reason, I only use my stands once a year and the I'm the only one in our club that even owns any stands and the people that attend our show wouldn't know a good stand from a 15 buck stand.
keep it green,
Harry
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I wouldn't - but not because I don't value it. I just don't buy $600 stands (or pots for that matter) for my bonsai. Putting a $500 tree on a $600 stand is overkill in my opinion
If you really wanted beer money, I would suggest you make 10 of these stands at the same time. You and I both know you could probably do so in a quarter of the time (or less) that it would take you to do 10 different stands - especially once you set up your cuts, create some jigs and glue-up frames, etc. Then you could probably sell them for $300 and actually make more money on your time. You could sell your stands in series - i.e. post a pic of your prototype, and then allow people to "sign up" for stands. When you make the stands you can sign and individually number them. Slick business and better for all involved.
10 stands at $300 = $3000
3 stands at $600 =
Depending on where you source your hardwoods, there may even be efficiencies of scale if you buy more board feet at a time...
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
This is why bonsai has always had a hard time in America being presented as art. No one wants to spend the money to do it right. You won't hurt my feeligs by placing your tree on a 15 buck stand
I wouldn't - but not because I don't value it. I just don't buy $600 stands (or pots for that matter) for my bonsai. Putting a $500 tree on a $600 stand is overkill in my opinion
If you really wanted beer money, I would suggest you make 10 of these stands at the same time. You and I both know you could probably do so in a quarter of the time (or less) that it would take you to do 10 different stands - especially once you set up your cuts, create some jigs and glue-up frames, etc. Then you could probably sell them for $300 and actually make more money on your time. You could sell your stands in series - i.e. post a pic of your prototype, and then allow people to "sign up" for stands. When you make the stands you can sign and individually number them. Slick business and better for all involved.
10 stands at $300 = $3000
3 stands at $600 =
Depending on where you source your hardwoods, there may even be efficiencies of scale if you buy more board feet at a time...
I do not want to mass produce stands. I am not a whore. I do not want to make stands for profit, there is none at 300.00, if my time is worth anything. In fact there is not alot at 600.00 dollars after finishing is done. I will spend nearly 20 or more hours finishing a stand after french polishing.
Mass producing stands such as you suggest produces stands of the quality as seen in the few posts of links of those trying to fill a niche. They look mass produced with hard lines, hard edges, and crappy finishes.
A stand such as this is an investment in ones hobby. As anything pursued as a hobby, be it classic cars, koi, or fish tanks or antiques, there is a high road and a cheap road.
Which one do you want to be on?
In the end it comes down to sharpening the hand saw and buying a truckload of wood and start gluing.
If you have never made a stand such as this, how do you know I could cut a quater of the time off?
al
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Klytus
Omono
You could shave off half the time omitting the french polish,does anyone spray Nitrocellulose in the neighbourhood?
Custom Guitar shops may do it.
Look at the 'burst on that one!
Custom Guitar shops may do it.
Look at the 'burst on that one!
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I'm sorry, did I miss something Al, do you French polish your stands, of is this just another of the many version of Kytusitis?
painter
Mame
your stands are like paintings al. one of a kind. and i truly agree its really hard here for people to open up there wallets when it comes time for someone to pay for something that "hangs over a couch" or holds a tree up.
painter.
dont sell your soul al.
painter.
dont sell your soul al.
Si Nguyen
Omono
Awesome work Al! That's worth at least 600 bucks! Can I put my name down on the waiting list for one? I'd buy one right now. Wanna trade for some other stands, or for some suiseki or bonsai? I'd love to see how you finish it.
Si
Si
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
LOL Al - I think there is a big difference between making ten stands and being a whore
I also think there is a big difference between making ten stands and mass-producing stands.I happen to play classical acoustic guitar. Handmade guitars can be worth many thousands of dollars. The best guitars are ALL made by hand. That does not mean that the makers do not use jigs, forms, frames, and other devices to accelerate their work. They don't view it as "selling out" they view it as a necessary part of a very demanding process that requires a much higher level of detail and and accuracy than making a bonsai stand. Screw up one measurement, even a little, and the whole piece is ruined.
I'm not gonna disparage you because you make unique stands one at a time. I think it's laughable that you disparage me for making comments that I offered with the best of possible intentions. It is apparent that you equate slowness with quality. Personally, I equate quality with quality, regardless of how much (or little) time it takes.
The good result of this post... I now feel like playing my guitar
And yes, I understand and appreciate French polish In a guitar, it not only looks better, but improves the sound. Now here's what I want the top of MY stand to look like 
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
LOL Al - I think there is a big difference between making ten stands and being a whore
I happen to play classical acoustic guitar. Handmade guitars can be worth many thousands of dollars. The best guitars are ALL made by hand. That does not mean that the makers do not use jigs, forms, frames, and other devices to accelerate their work. They don't view it as "selling out" they view it as a necessary part of a very demanding process that requires a much higher level of detail and and accuracy than making a bonsai stand. Screw up one measurement, even a little, and the whole piece is ruined.
I'm not gonna disparage you because you make unique stands one at a time. I think it's laughable that you disparage me for making comments that I offered with the best of possible intentions. It is apparent that you equate slowness with quality. Personally, I equate quality with quality, regardless of how much (or little) time it takes.
The good result of this post... I now feel like playing my guitar
You know Greg I have to apoligise for this thread taking such a nasty turn. My intention was to chronical the development of a stand built by "me" for "me". My intention was not to make this post a calling card, as I have no time nor inclination to make stand building a side line.
I felt it may be interesting to watch the development of a bonsai table and watch the care and expertise it takes in producing one. Maybe giving a little insight to the process and what makes a fine piece of furniture like this cost more than 15 bucks.
I could have made the legs straight across at the top and just butt joined them to the top rather than a tightly joined triple mitre.
I could have just had a 90 degree intersection with the leg and top instead of the inside curved union.
I could have just made the legs straight instead of the inward turned club feet.
I might have not elevated the top on the dowels and just joined the legs to the top saving a lot of time.
I could have just used some old cedar fencing wood instead of nice clear cherry wood.
but then I would have had a 15 buck stand.
Oh...and BTW didn't you just start a thread the other day asking about stand builders? I started this thread weeks before you started that post. I could have saved you a butt load of time. There are only a few good stand builders out there. There are many more crappy stand builders out there. I think I've earned a little more respect than what I have recieved in this thread.
I said that in the fourth post in answer to Gary's question about finishing.
I play guitar too..so you'll have to wait also.
Klytus
Omono
I am inspired to try my hand at a Van Halen Tribute table,so cool.
