How would you price this BC forest bonsai?

[Cajunrider]

You shouldn't have to explain yourself to a fool.

Do me a solid...do not sell this one a tree. That's all I ask.

I think we can all ease off a little. I am OK with skepticism. After all, it is the internet. People can make all sorts of claims. I made one and can back it up but I am not above any skepticism. I think it is healthy that way.

 

[Cadillactaste]

It's worth pointing out that I have also been assessing the variances in (Acer) seed-grown specimens from Northern vs. southern seed... I should have enough info soon (within the next 2 years) to do some kind of "write-up" on my experiences in thread format.

Cool...I just know...local nursery guarantees material. So they only buy from Ohio growers. As to seed? No clue. As they have to go through stratification and begin the process of being a plant. They will only acclimate in your climate.

 

[rockm]

August is not wrong about availabilty of larger trunk starter material right now, do a sold search on ebay.
Does anyone have any that can be chopped to fit a large flat rate diagonal ?
Decent money sell while you can, before summer...only your least favorites to make a quick $100

Yeah, he is wrong. If you're asking hobbyists here to sell you their trees, you're not looking in the right place. All I can do is point to Facebook. There was a BC there four days ago that had what looked to be a four inch trunk with some buttressing. over 24" tall with prelim design work on initial branching. Price was under $200. That's not uncommon there. Ebay is only a single source (and hardly the best, most of the stuff there sux) FB auctions has junk too, but mixed in are some pretty decent trees.

Decent money indeed , laughable, spoken like someone who has never done it...

finding the right container to ship the tree. packing the rootmass adequately, checking to see if you can be charged with something for shipping it to a state that has restrictions, having that tree arrive and die due to the incompetence of a beginner who has no idea how to keep it, but blames the seller for killing it, the list goes on....

 

[Cajunrider]

I was warned...southern bald cypress...need to be sheltered for our winters...until their dormant period is on schedule with our deciduous trees up north for success. Now...this may...be in a pot.

But what I do know...wintering southern trees. They wake earlier than my northern trees. They take a few years to get onto my dormancy cycle with the rest. So that said...I tend to believe what I was told...


My landscape company only buys from an Ohio grower. The trees do not need acclimating. They discouraged me from buying one for the landscape.

Good to know. I am taking with me a bunch of BCs and May hawthorn to PA. Current plan is to winter them in an unheated garage that is attached to the house so it will be very cool but hopefully survivable to my Southern trees.

 

[nuttiest]

Yeah, he is wrong. If you're asking hobbyists here to sell you their trees, you're not looking in the right place. All I can do is point to Facebook. There was a BC there four days ago that had what looked to be a four inch trunk with some buttressing. over 24" tall with prelim design work on initial branching. Price was under $200. That's not uncommon there. Ebay is only a single source (and hardly the best, most of the stuff there sux) FB auctions has junk too, but mixed in are some pretty decent trees.

Decent money indeed , laughable, spoken like someone who has never done it...

finding the right container to ship the tree. packing the rootmass adequately, checking to see if you can be charged with something for shipping it to a state that has restrictions, having that tree arrive and die due to the incompetence of a beginner who has no idea how to keep it, but blames the seller for killing it, the list goes on....

that is wow, 4" for that price is good for the buyer. I bought a nice olive stump from fb auctions recently, it's just harder to look through.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I'm sure this will piss off the troops...I have been trying to buy a couple of decent, collected BC for a while now with zero success. It seems that most collectors don't want to waste their time or bother with cutting smaller ones down to 18" or so, wrapping the root ball in some wet paper towels + plastic, getting the correct size box and away they go. Wish I lived where they grew. There would not be a shortage of them for sale on the net. O I get it, Sorce says I shouldn't get one cause they don't grow here. What BS

PS: Sorry Cajun, I don't believe this for a minute..." I am in this to spread joy and not to make any money"

I can speak personally on this one. CJR is one of the nicest people that you would ever want to meet, and he does spread joy, with the gift of his trees and his personality! I have a fabulous mayhaw that he brought to me, I did not even have to go two states away to get it. So, yeah, he is not in it for the money. He is a good guy super nice.

So, quit assuming and maybe I'll take you off my idiot list.

 

[nuttiest]

What ARE your small ones, seedlings or cuttings?

 

[Backwardsvg]

Well this thread got out of hand quickly haha…

Having said that I was the one I believe @Cajunrider was talking about who bought his tree! Could I have found a better price maybe, could I have found a bigger tree sure, could I blah blah blah absolutely. BUT Cajun is a bad ass dude who has helped me a bunch and who I was more than willing to drive 2+ hours to meet and buy his tree. I drove from CHICAGO to HOUSTON and drove to LOUISIANA just to get one of HIS trees because it’s a great story and hey gives him some more gas money so he can dig some more!

Sometimes it’s the adventure, memory, and helping out the bonsai community that is worth more. And Cajun gave me a free tree which was awesome and we got to meet in person which was cool.

I try not to get into drama but dang y’all can’t we just do bonsai agree it’s an art to different eye, know not everyone has a lot of money etc haha

 

[Cadillactaste]

I think we can all ease off a little. I am OK with skepticism. After all, it is the internet. People can make all sorts of claims. I made one and can back it up but I am not above any skepticism. I think it is healthy that way.

I read johng 's comment on the interaction with this one as well in your thread. Sorry... I've zero tolerance for that mentality. Sort of...triggered me. Skepticism is one thing...but...no, he gave John a hard time as well since he doesn't ship. As most my entire collection was shipped. There is a lot to getting material safely to another. I have gave trees away. With that pressure not as heavy on my shoulders. It is a lot to package trees to mail. Been there done that.

I'm out . Have a wonderful day.

 

[rockm]

Good to know. I am taking with me a bunch of BCs and May hawthorn to PA. Current plan is to winter them in an unheated garage that is attached to the house so it will be very cool but hopefully survivable to my Southern trees.

FWIW, you probably won't need a garage to overwinter BC (in fact, I'd recommend against it). BC are fine through the winter around in the middle Atlantic states in a deeply mulched garden bed. I've had winter temps -8 F that my La.-collected BC weathered with no issues--(your mileage will vary if you have Fla. collected BC which I've found aren't as winter hardy as the La. trees I've worked on).

However, I've had increasing difficulties in the last five to six years with warming winters. Winter in that time has generally gone from deep freezes in late Nov. and into Dec. with single digits and teens, then in late Dec.-Jan.- early March we get warm to even hot weather (we've already had an 84 degree day here in the DMV in Feb.) then a plunge back into the 20s for days in mid-late March, even early April.

That mid-winter warm up has killed one BC of mine (the first in 30 years of keeping them here) as a late March deep freeze caught it with buds just about to pop. The tree was killed to the ground even though its roots were under six inches of pine bark mulch. What was left of the trunk wasn't worth working on.

So in other words, use the garage as a temporary shelter for trees coming into leaf early, not as a primary storage location (it will likely force even earlier growth)

 

[sorce]

Ur so full of it Sorce

You must be joking!
Yeah....
I'll go with joking!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

any topics

Sorce

 

[Carol 83]

He's excellent and a stand-up guy.

I second that! I have several trees from him. Shipping was included in his price and mine were already in quality pots. He is quick to answer any e-mail and willing to offer advice or suggestions. He also included care sheets for each of the trees.

 

[Carol 83]

If you're not on there because you "don't do facebook," well, you're missing out.

Or just use your spouses FB account.

 

[Cadillactaste]

FWIW, you probably won't need a garage to overwinter BC (in fact, I'd recommend against it). BC are fine through the winter around in the middle Atlantic states in a deeply mulched garden bed. I've had winter temps -8 F that my La.-collected BC weathered with no issues--(your mileage will vary if you have Fla. collected BC which I've found aren't as winter hardy as the La. trees I've worked on).

However, I've had increasing difficulties in the last five to six years with warming winters. Winter in that time has generally gone from deep freezes in late Nov. and into Dec. with single digits and teens, then in late Dec.-Jan.- early March we get warm to even hot weather (we've already had an 84 degree day here in the DMV in Feb.) then a plunge back into the 20s for days in mid-late March, even early April.

That mid-winter warm up has killed one BC of mine (the first in 30 years of keeping them here) as a late March deep freeze caught it with buds just about to pop. The tree was killed to the ground even though its roots were under six inches of pine bark mulch. What was left of the trunk wasn't worth working on.

So in other words, use the garage as a temporary shelter for trees coming into leaf early, not as a primary storage location (it will likely force even earlier growth)

Peculiar...I winter mine in a controlled cold greenhouse. 32F-40F... always have. But...I winter all my dormant trees in there. It's finally on schedule with my northern dormancy. But it took several years. Always waking early.

This past winter we seen wind chill -40F... I think if we seen a winter similar. And a tree frozen into the ground...that is used to southern winters. I would be concerned. But, I do tend to prefer not stressing winter and spring two steps. I've added grow lights and my trees stay put.

I still would keep my best trees in a sheltered area. Just because...that what if scares the gajebbers out of me.

Jerome of Bonsai Supply lost a tree...moving it from Florida. He talks of acclimating too. I guess...I'm always more on the cautious side. Verses seeing loss.

 

[Cadillactaste]

View attachment 475639

Sorce

Sorry? You quoted my saying "any topics".

Clueless.

 

[rockm]

Peculiar...I winter mine in a controlled cold greenhouse. 32F-40F... always have. But...I winter all my dormant trees in there. It's finally on schedule with my northern dormancy. But it took several years. Always waking early.

This past winter we seen wind chill -40F... I think if we seen a winter similar. And a tree frozen into the ground...that is used to southern winters. I would be concerned. But, I do tend to prefer not stressing winter and spring two steps. I've added grow lights and my trees stay put.

I still would keep my best trees in a sheltered area. Just because...that what if scares the gajebbers out of me.

Jerome of Bonsai Supply lost a tree...moving it from Florida. He talks of acclimating too. I guess...I'm always more on the cautious side. Verses seeing loss.

Wind chill has no bearing on trees. Without foliage, they can't transpire, so there is no pull for water on the roots (Which is desiccation, not wind chill)

BC overwinter all the time with frozen roots here in the northern end of its range. Keeping them between 32-40 would scare me, as that can and does lead to early bud break. Trees are not on a "schedule" acclimating one area to another. They push new growth when they are ready once they have completed their "chilling" requirements. Warm temperatures will set them early. Keep them cold and that won't happen...THat said, Fla. collected trees are most likely, IMO, a subspecies (their leaves are different for instance). I've wintered Fla. and La. collected BC side by side. La. trees are more cold hardy. Fla. trees need more protection.

I am not concerned with BC surviving overwintering with singl digit or even negative temps, as long as their roots are protected from those temps. I am very famliar, however, with being cautious with species that are more southern origin. I overwinter a Texas live oak in a cold greenhouse just to be safe. I had it for about five years before I began storing it in in that greenhouse. It did OK, as Escarpment live oak (Texas subspecies of southern live oak) is hardy to Zone 5-6.

I know Dale Cochoy (miss that guy BTW) overwintered his BC for years in Ohio in much the same way I do.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Wind chill has no bearing on trees. Without foliage, they can't transpire, so there is no pull for water on the roots (Which is desiccation, not wind chill)

BC overwinter all the time with frozen roots here in the northern end of its range. Keeping them between 32-40 would scare me, as that can and does lead to early bud break. Trees are not on a "schedule" acclimating one area to another. They push new growth when they are ready once they have completed their "chilling" requirements. Warm temperatures will set them early. Keep them cold and that won't happen...THat said, Fla. collected trees are most likely, IMO, a subspecies (their leaves are different for instance). I've wintered Fla. and La. collected BC side by side. La. trees are more cold hardy. Fla. trees need more protection.

I am not concerned with BC surviving overwintering with singl digit or even negative temps, as long as their roots are protected from those temps. I am very famliar, however, with being cautious with species that are more southern origin. I overwinter a Texas live oak in a cold greenhouse just to be safe. I had it for about five years before I began storing it in in that greenhouse. It did OK, as Escarpment live oak (Texas subspecies of southern live oak) is hardy to Zone 5-6.

I know Dale Cochoy (miss that guy BTW) overwintered his BC for years in Ohio in much the same way I do.

Ahhh maybe it was because mine came from Florida. As the advice was because...my tree came from Mike Lane of Florida.

Most all my trees from the south came from Florida. So that is my experience and knowledge given to me for those trees.

 

[Maiden69]

Peculiar...I winter mine in a controlled cold greenhouse. 32F-40F... always have. But...I winter all my dormant trees in there. It's finally on schedule with my northern dormancy. But it took several years. Always waking early.

This past winter we seen wind chill -40F... I think if we seen a winter similar. And a tree frozen into the ground...that is used to southern winters. I would be concerned. But, I do tend to prefer not stressing winter and spring two steps. I've added grow lights and my trees stay put.

I still would keep my best trees in a sheltered area. Just because...that what if scares the gajebbers out of me.

Jerome of Bonsai Supply lost a tree...moving it from Florida. He talks of acclimating too. I guess...I'm always more on the cautious side. Verses seeing loss.

My BC's came from MD and have been in TX starting their 3rd year now, and they are completely the opposite to yours. They are out all year round and we had a very short spring, with temps regularly between 70-80's with a few cool days and they are just beginning to swell right now. This is a pic of the top of one of the medium-sized BC's. The branches on the top area are like this, the lower are barely showing now. Trident and J. maples are leafing out, so are the myrtles. Quinces are breaking bud and all the elms are in leaf.



BTW... somebody already bought the BC you posted on the link.

 

[Cadillactaste]

My BC's came from MD and have been in TX starting their 3rd year now, and they are completely the opposite to yours. They are out all year round and we had a very short spring, with temps regularly between 70-80's with a few cool days and they are just beginning to swell right now. This is a pic of the top of one of the medium-sized BC's. The branches on the top area are like this, the lower are barely showing now. Trident and J. maples are leafing out, so are the myrtles. Quinces are breaking bud and all the elms are in leaf.

View attachment 475644

BTW... somebody already bought the BC you posted on the link.

My bald cypress is still basically dormant. My elms that went fully dormant...are not in leaf. My Trident is dormant...my Chinese quince is always early. My tree from Texas is ahead of my JM's. Crepe myrtle also dormant.

Only new to me last year southern trees are awake...or most of them.

EDIT:
Trust me...Jason has by far.. more than listed on his website. My last tree from him...a sweet plum in a Jack Hoover pot. . [Recently repotted by me.] Never on that website as a listing.