How to get drastic taper without major trunk chops?

[shohin kid]

The link he is refering to: http://www.shohin-europe.com/ALBEKGALLERY-acer-2.html

 

[jk_lewis]

I circled what appears to be one trunk chop on this Japanese Maple. BT has articles about growing these short fat things...mostly grown on a tile and allowing one apex to extend at a time and shortening it before it gets too heavy to require a big chop. LOTS of spraying with lime sulfur helps keep the trunk evenly colored, which disguises much of the work.

I'd bet there are many more chops than that hidden inside that tree.

These trees are much too small to have been developed by fusing a batch of whips together, a process in itself that is VERY time consuming. It also is less likely to produce nice trunks than the traditional means. Folks who tout it only show their successes.

I personally find those tipi-shaped trees to be very unnatural looking.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

In Japan, lime sulfur is used in the winter as a dormant-season fungicide and insecticide. I think the dilution rate is 1:100, and it has the added effect of bleaching the trunk a little at a time. Notice how most of the Japanese d-trees, whether they're beech, hornbeam, J. maple, T. maple all have a similar color to the trunk? Additionally, used straight (or tinted with ink) and painted onto deadwood, it will bleach out the deadwood and also act as a preservative. In both cases, the effect is cumulative.

 

[rockm]

This tree looks to me to be one big repeated trunk (or branch) chop. The bark's texture to me, looks like scar tissue.

I'm not a real fan of this kind of exaggerated tiny tree...

Actually, the shape and texture brought to my mind the image of stuff you find in the grass around a dog park...honest. I'm not trying to be insulting, it's just what popped (or pooped) into my head when I initially saw the picture. I'm a long time dog owner and have been picking the stuff up for so long, the image may unfortunately be stuck in my head ;-)

 

[jk_lewis]

In Japan, lime sulfur is used in the winter as a dormant-season fungicide and insecticide. I think the dilution rate is 1:100,

Here too. That is the primary purpose of lime sulfur. However, the dilution varies depending on its intended use and time of year (label). I've used it that way for 20 years on bonsai and on fruit trees and other shrubs. Its "preventative-ness" is fairly limited -- especially as a pesticide.

and it has the added effect of bleaching the trunk a little at a time. Notice how most of the Japanese d-trees, whether they're beech, hornbeam, J. maple, T. maple all have a similar color to the trunk?

I have to differ here. LS used in such dilute ratios will have little or no effect on the color of the bark. That requires full strength application. Those trees all have naturally smooth light bark -- in pots and in the woods. The Japanese use it on trees with dark bark, too and you see nothing different in bark color. I've seen no color change on my trees, either -- whether in the yard, orchard, or bonsai tables.

Additionally, used straight (or tinted with ink) and painted onto deadwood, it will bleach out the deadwood and also act as a preservative. In both cases, the effect is cumulative.

The long-term "preservative" value of lime sulfur is vastly overstated. It will kill wood-rotting fungus at the surface and on contact, and perhaps for a week or so afterward. If rot exists under the surface of the deadwood it will continue to work away at he tree. Beyond a few weeks, its effects are nominal -- at best. Lime sulfur, if not applied annually, washes off the deadwood in time.

 

[Attila Soos]

I'm a long time dog owner and have been picking the stuff up for so long, the image may unfortunately be stuck in my head ;-)

But because of your bonsai training, I am sure that you can appreciate when you see great movement and character in them.....

Same here, picking up those things is my second job..

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here too. That is the primary purpose of lime sulfur. However, the dilution varies depending on its intended use and time of year (label). I've used it that way for 20 years on bonsai and on fruit trees and other shrubs. Its "preventative-ness" is fairly limited -- especially as a pesticide.



I have to differ here. LS used in such dilute ratios will have little or no effect on the color of the bark. That requires full strength application. Those trees all have naturally smooth light bark -- in pots and in the woods. The Japanese use it on trees with dark bark, too and you see nothing different in bark color. I've seen no color change on my trees, either -- whether in the yard, orchard, or bonsai tables.



The long-term "preservative" value of lime sulfur is vastly overstated. It will kill wood-rotting fungus at the surface and on contact, and perhaps for a week or so afterward. If rot exists under the surface of the deadwood it will continue to work away at he tree. Beyond a few weeks, its effects are nominal -- at best. Lime sulfur, if not applied annually, washes off the deadwood in time.

Each person brings his or her unique experience to the forum...just sharing my experience and studies; which is also reflected in the quality of my trees. Quoting and refuting posts line by line isn't exactly ingratiating...but it is good to have a new member with experience on the forum.

 

[Klytus]

Maybe the cut paste used had some effect.

 

[rockm]

"But because of your bonsai training, I am sure that you can appreciate when you see great movement and character in them....."

"Movement" Heheheh, Beavis...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

"But because of your bonsai training, I am sure that you can appreciate when you see great movement and character in them....."

"Movement" Heheheh, Beavis...

I like the way that they appear to rise up from the bowels of the earth

 

[JasonG]

That little maple is a stunner! I would welcome a tree of 1/2 that quality on my bench anytime! Amazing tree.

Jason

 

[Bonsaichef]

There are scars there just well aged and fully healed. Here are some pics of how it's done for shohin in the field.
With the smaller one the tapered trunk can be constructed in a Chinese colander over the course of 5 seasons using good feeding & pruning appropriately.
CB

 

[Dr.GreenThumb]

Wow Impressive !

 

[Smoke]

...or... you can read this article.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3149

 

[Bonsaichef]

I think we should quest to produce the best possible quality. There are many way to skin the cat. I find field growing is the best for my situation. It is a five to seven year cycle with predictable outcome. Here is another field picture.

 

[milehigh_7]

I think we should quest to produce the best possible quality. There are many way to skin the cat. I find field growing is the best for my situation. It is a five to seven year cycle with predictable outcome. Here is another field picture.

You may be right chef, however I have seen how Smoke's work comes out. It seems fairly predictable and usually passable (tongue in cheek).


I don't believe I have seen your finished product or the entire story of how you achieve it. I would like to see it so please start a thread and chronicle your 5-7 year cycle. It would be good to learn different methods.

Thanks!

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

I second that. Your work is very promising, I wish you explain more.

 

[Bonsaichef]

I will start to compile data to chronicle my trees this spring. I have many very large trident maple. This particular plant has been my hobbie for 20 years. I also live in Louisiana so we have a long growing season which these Acer like.
This week I will start 11 root over rock (real Ibigawa stone from a friend in Japan) using the Japanese tradesman grafting technique.
These will range from 10"-22" & various forms to boot.
BC

 

[Bonsaichef]

Also, Bonsai Today # 23 was my inspiration...read it.
BC

I am not here to be a "Forum Warrior" I am not the world's best bonsai artist nor do I think I am. This is a hobby that I have been doing for 2/3 of my life. I joined this board to learn, share my ideas & experiences nothing more. Smoke your work looks good, you have a good eye. I do things the old fashioned way I don't grow branches until the wounds are healed. I don't worry about ramification until my nebari is well on it's way...........like I said I'm old school. The only thing I am really good at is making large interesting trunks & will listing some for sale this fall.
BC

 

[Smoke]

This name and text seems vaguely familier......