Hinoki Cypress dying? What's going on? Winter damage.

[Bonsai Nut]

Hinokis are very difficult trees to care for. As far as I can tell they need:

(1) Bright direct sun, but not too hot, or they will scorch.
(2) High humidity, and protection from wind.
(3) Acid soil.

If you don't give them enough sun, any interior foliage that didn't get enough light will die back in the Fall - becoming brown and brittle. And it won't grow back.

I have tried several times to keep these in Southern Cal, and I'm not sure I will ever be successful unless I buy a greenhouse where I can give them high humidity, no wind, and filtered 70% sunlight. And I will have to treat the water.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here is my current project and I know this is not a Mugo, but I do love Hinokis. I procured this tree in New York at the National show. What is not to love with an Hinoki---except their little difficulties. I planted it in a pond basket and that seems to have helped the tree immensely. I found another good one last year that I plan on putting into a pond basket this year. I am really excited about working on these guys this year.

 

[Japonicus]

I just got a couple of new Sekka Hinoki (yeahhhhh! ) but one of them is looking very sorry for itself. I reckon mites?...

Got soap? Insecticidal soap...

Where did you purchase these from?????

Regardless of species needs, insect damage is obvious.
Agree with Vance whole heartedly, you have insect damage currently underway.
Separate these from any other area you do not want them to spread to.

QT quarantine them till recovered. Would be smart, IMO, to do a preventative spray
of your current collection and again as Spring approaches.
Personally I would QT them from each other in case the one doesn't make it, giving the other
higher chances, but they both have this. Best of luck. We're pullin for ya!

 

[Japonicus]

...the family moved to Iowa and shortyl after that I was drafted into the Army and lost everything.

Again, Thank You @Vance Wood for your service. My Dad was a WWll grunt, loved the knowledge of weather and trees.

They are difficult trees and do not back bud well so you have to have some sort of idea what you are doing if you are going down the Hinoki road. Up front; they like more water than most conifers and not as much sun exposure. They do not like the heat too much and it important that you do not allow the pots to become pressure cookers.

As to the above trees; It is an insect, probably mites, you should take care of that issue. Remember what you lose today will be gone forever.

I didn't know they were difficult. This one is probably 4x the size it was when I got it. Have had it 10 or less years.
Mine gets a lot of Sun, and is the WRONG pot for such. It was the right size pot I had when I potted it.
Will probably move it into a mica pot this year or wooden one. What is a good wood choice for pots?
Is cedar a good choice? Treated lumber bad idea due to chemicals I suppose?
You certainly have a nitch for stock. When do you pot, wire and trim yours? I treat mine like juniper
so I pot in Spring, wire any time it's dry (not Winter) and trim when growing.
Used to heal it into the ground, and may be why it is more like the 1st picture this year than ever.
It has frozen solid a few times for sure.

My soil has "hard fired" akadama in it, and I am unhappy with how long it holds up.
It turns back to mud too quick. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Japonicus]

Hinokis are very difficult trees to care for. As far as I can tell they need:

(1) Bright direct sun, but not too hot, or they will scorch.
(2) High humidity, and protection from wind.
(3) Acid soil.

If you don't give them enough sun, any interior foliage that didn't get enough light will die back in the Fall - becoming brown and brittle. And it won't grow back.

I have tried several times to keep these in Southern Cal, and I'm not sure I will ever be successful unless I buy a greenhouse where I can give them high humidity, no wind, and filtered 70% sunlight. And I will have to treat the water.

Hello Bonsai Nut!
Sorry yours haven't faired well. I have plenty of Sun, and high enough humidity in the Summer.
Acid food rotated in, (Holly Tone and Mir Acid) but not too much protection from the wind save for Winter.
Oh, new this past Summer, I get less shade than ever. So not sure if it's that or the cold
but I suspect the cold being the outer tips of the foliage, but the one sided issue puzzles me for cold damage.

Will be trying my hand at Blue Atlas cedar this year I hope. Wish me luck.

 

[keri-wms]

Got soap? Insecticidal soap...

Where did you purchase these from?????

Regardless of species needs, insect damage is obvious.
Agree with Vance whole heartedly, you have insect damage currently underway.
Separate these from any other area you do not want them to spread to.

QT quarantine them till recovered. Would be smart, IMO, to do a preventative spray
of your current collection and again as Spring approaches.
Personally I would QT them from each other in case the one doesn't make it, giving the other
higher chances, but they both have this. Best of luck. We're pullin for ya!

Thanks, I'll be doing something along these lines, I've got two types of systemic sprays that both list mites so I'll do one, then a week later the other, then a week later the soap (will need to buy that). Not sure how much to cut off and burn but given it likes to die back at the best of times I'm thinking "anything off colour".

There are white blobs on the dead stuff that do look like fungus so I'll fungicide them too. Would be nice to know if Sekka (or Hinoki in general) are susceptible to any of the chemicals we might use?

I got them from a good guy AFAIK but they got stuck in the post for ages and might (mite!) have cooked with no circulation.......I want to hear back from the seller. They were scruffy in the photos but beasties were not really part of the deal.

Interestingly this guy has a similar but worse issue (I feel really sorry for the buyer, wonder if the bonsai community in the Gemany can help him?), on a FAR more expensive tree, that was shipped from Germany to Thailand!??!!!! Not the seller I used though for the record. See:

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I have several in the yard and at least one bonsai. They do the yellowing and browning every fall. Conifers in general loose 1/2-1/3 of their needles each year and this is just part of the nature of these trees. It does however appear that some of your extreme browning may be winter burn.

 

[Japonicus]

Thanks, I'll be doing something along these lines, I've got two types of systemic sprays that both list mites so I'll do one, then a week later the other, then a week later the soap (will need to buy that). Not sure how much to cut off and burn but given it likes to die back at the best of times I'm thinking "anything off colour".

There are white blobs on the dead stuff that do look like fungus so I'll fungicide them too. Would be nice to know if Sekka (or Hinoki in general) are susceptible to any of the chemicals we might use?

I got them from a good guy AFAIK but they got stuck in the post for ages and might (mite!) have cooked with no circulation.......I want to hear back from the seller. They were scruffy in the photos but beasties were not really part of the deal.

Interestingly this guy has a similar but worse issue (I feel really sorry for the buyer, wonder if the bonsai community in the Gemany can help him?), on a FAR more expensive tree, that was shipped from Germany to Thailand!??!!!! Not the seller I used though for the record. See:

That video is disturbing.
Even the area where the new owner had it was disturbing.
You don't just up and introduce unknowns to your collection. There's a reason imports
must be QT'd for, what 2 yrs I think minimum? Certainly no less. It's like being in close
quarters with healthy people, and someone with a limp soggy hanky sits down, sweating
profusely, appears delirious and can't quit coughing. Everybody wants to leave.
That's exactly what that German did. It's overlapping one or more bonsai, and on an open rack
over top others

Don't think I'd hit the tree so quick with all ya got though. Could be too hard. Insects 1st.
Personally I would put the garden hose on shower setting tree on its side (in an area not near
any susceptible plants), supporting the tree foliage in one hand (maybe gloved up) and control the stream
from the nozzle till you get a maximum tolerable force on the foliage being careful of the bark.
Sweep through all the foliage with respect to the bark, which needs insecticide afterwards.
On a healthy tree, this may be all you need to do for a minor infestation avoiding chemicals
Think Alberta spruce in the landscape. Jet stream is a huge help to these trees or strong shower anyway.
Have to get the blood suckers controlled 1st and do not feed it other than maybe superthrive
unless anyone else chimes in differently. You will need to follow up and repeat this per label instructions.

This one might just be your best looking of the two when all is said and done.

As to what chemicals Hinoki tolerate, I know insecticidal soap is fine, can't remember if I used
malathion on mine or not. I tend to avoid this tree when I do preventative soap spraying.
Seems I remember hitting my bigger one with malathion before with no ill results, but not positive.

Not from experience, carbaryl is used on them to control rust mites (Sevin contains it)
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/rust-mites-cypress-80290.html
Looks like Neem oil would be a no no.

 

[keri-wms]

(sorry for the thread cash guys!) I just used a "mite killing" spray on my two, then I prodded all the old-years dead stuff off the trees' interiors (1/3 - 1/2 of the total foliage), then on the bad one trimmed any bits that look doomed back to a greener shoot that might not be. These things take the record for being fiddly to work on!!!!

I never saw any moving dots on paper so I reckon the mites were dead already....!

The plot thickens for me though, they are in fine sliiightly broken down akadama by the looks, and were semi pot bound - BUT the roots out the outside of the rootball are all 100% dead / black / mush. My betting is they got frozen / root rot in european winter/rain but who knows. SO...they are both going to be bare (ish) rooted, the dead stuff cut off, and potted up into some nice free draining.......I'm thinking a nice perlite / kitidama / kanuma kind of mix. If the centre of the root ball isn't too bad I might use the hose to flush all the fine clay sludge out without picking it open, that would be ideal. See what I find tomorrow!

Then until spring somehow keep them somewhere bright outdoors (evergreen and looking active)....but safe from frost (root pruned).....and with loads of air circulation (anti mite / fungi).....but not too wet due to UK rainfall (to try and stop the root rot). That's going to be a pain.

I'm optimistic they'll live, but one with scars.

 

[Japonicus]

Not crashing at all @ keri-wms . Hope they pull through. The scarred one may be the best looking one
if it pulls through, who knows

 

[keri-wms]

Hmmmm. The plot thickens. I'll let the photos tell the story! Note that the akadama was mainly ok still, and note the roots come in two colours - reddish near the surface or....black.

 

[Japonicus]

Hmmmm. The plot thickens. I'll let the photos tell the story! Note that the akadama was mainly ok still, and note the roots come in two colours - reddish near the surface or....black.

Had you not received these trees, they were doomed. Looks like you're doing right by them so far.
When will you be planning on less dense foliage? At this point, nature might have to do that for you for a while.
I would be tempted to do something early to try and let nature take a decided path, rather than a random one.
Best of luck.

 

[keri-wms]

Had you not received these trees, they were doomed. Looks like you're doing right by them so far.
When will you be planning on less dense foliage? At this point, nature might have to do that for you for a while.

It's odd isn't it - not like they are cheap species local grown starters that might get forgotten in a puddle! I wonder if it's Japan > Europe import damage.

They are a lot thinner than they were, now I took out the dead stuff. I was seriously pondering wiring some branches to get separation but decided against it as the low branches are on a knife edge as it is. I'll see how green they stay and take it from there!

I'd be relaxed if they were Sawara as those things root like mad - but I don't think I ever had a Hinoki (Nana Gracilis) cutting take......but they were surviving as they were, as conditions are improved maybe they'll perk up too. Hope so!!!

 

[Vance Wood]

The best thing you can do at this point is to clean them up, make sure they are not infested and that the soil is not compacted and holding too much water. Just need to bring them back up to health.

 

[keri-wms]

The best thing you can do at this point is to clean them up, make sure they are not infested and that the soil is not compacted and holding too much water. Just need to bring them back up to health.

Yup, I was only thinking to move branches to let air/light in, not styling.

 

[Vance Wood]

Hows the dancing lady?

Dancing along with a couple of new buddies in the chorus line.

 

[Vance Wood]

One thing about Hinokis is their love of more water than most conifers, the major reason they are not often grown by professionals.