Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I am and was refering to the original post by MWAR 15 the OP of this thread. If you go back and read it you will see it is as though you were complimenting him on the wiring and styling of the OP tree.
Help with pot on shore pine yamadori
- Thread starter mwar15
- Start date
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
Sorry, page is skewed a tad.
This was in the post by Frank, which I quoted.
I found it positive reinforcement, complimentary to your good call on the OP's wiring,
and was applauding a wiring job and styling well done. It is a prime example to
compliment the wiring subject, not advocate needed change.But, I do need help, that I'll never disagree.
Just know Vance I agree with you, but I was not referring to MWAR's wiring. Just quoting Frank.
I love Franks bonsai
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I agree this tree is good the wire and styling is good.Sorry, page is skewed a tad.
View attachment 224446
This was in the post by Frank, which I quoted.
I found it positive reinforcement, complimentary to your good call on the OP's wiring,
and was applauding a wiring job and styling well done. It is a prime example to
compliment the wiring subject, not advocate needed change.But, I do need help, that I'll never disagree.
Just know Vance I agree with you, but I was not referring to MWAR's wiring. Just quoting Frank.
I love Franks bonsai
mwar15
Omono
Just so you know I didn’t style the tree or wire the tree... it was a raffle tree I won at a show last year. I will share your concern for the styling and wiring to the people who did it.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Blasphemy!!
I mean... it doesn't matter to me
I think the tree has potential, though right now it is a bit of a mess. But that's the whole point of yamadori or pre-bonsai, isn't it? When I was doing the virtual of the pot, I even virtually "trimmed" some of the foliage at the top to give it an apex and better highlight the structure. Longer term, I think you will want to decide whether to keep the height, and eliminate the lowest branch, or keep the lowest branch, and reduce the height. Even so, I think the tree has a lot of character and a craggy look to it that I think is cool.
I have never seen a great bonsai made from a dead tree, however, so I think your first step is a good one - and to focus on getting this tree transplanted and as healthy as possible.
mwar15
Omono
I took the tree down to Driftwood Bonsai and repotted it. We put it in A and E and decided on E. I didn’t like the color of pot A. Pot E had the traditional look that I like. I don’t think it is the forever pot.
It does need some styling and branches moved to match the new potting angle. I probably will work on that this next fall.
It does need some styling and branches moved to match the new potting angle. I probably will work on that this next fall.
mwar15
Omono
Double post
mwar15
Omono
I just removed all the wire as it was cutting into the branches. I set it up took a picture and was sitting down to stare at it for a bit to come up with a game plan and it started to rain.
I’ll start wiring it some time this week.
I’ll start wiring it some time this week.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I wish you had followed the virtual done by @Bonsai Nut
If it were mine, I would have tilted the tree to the left to the point where the first branch on the left was near horizontal. That exposed root on the right is detracting from any of the images I can imagine. It will have to go as soon as there are enough roots elsewhere to support the tree. Unfortunately, you will have to wait 2 years to change the planting angle. That first segment of the trunk should not be bolt upright. It makes the rest of the tree look awkward.
Sorry, but I feel this repotting, by not changing angle of the trunk has seriously set back development of the tree by at least 2 years.
If it were mine, I would have tilted the tree to the left to the point where the first branch on the left was near horizontal. That exposed root on the right is detracting from any of the images I can imagine. It will have to go as soon as there are enough roots elsewhere to support the tree. Unfortunately, you will have to wait 2 years to change the planting angle. That first segment of the trunk should not be bolt upright. It makes the rest of the tree look awkward.
Sorry, but I feel this repotting, by not changing angle of the trunk has seriously set back development of the tree by at least 2 years.
mwar15
Omono
I am not in love with the pot it is currently in. I liked it the best of the pots I had. Looking back at the virtual that was done the planting angle I currently have it at isn’t the best. But, from where it was in the Anderson flat to now was a big angle change. We cut a fair amount of roots to get it in the pot. In a couple years I’ll reassess and see where to go with it and keep an eye out for a suitable pot.
Looking at the tree today I was thinking about lowering the left branch before you posted, changing the angle would help with that.
When I start wiring it I’ll move it around some and see how it looks at different angles.
The root on the right I liked when I first reported it but looking at the virtual it does look better without it.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I do not wish to be condescending but I am afraid that this will sound that way. It looks a lot to me like your wiring is ineffective. Without a system of wiring it is impossible to execute a design other than the antenna on an old TV design.
mwar15
Omono
The last picture is unwired, I think the original wiring did a lot, it was tilted up by 40-60 degrees. With a change of angle the original wiring and style needs to be updated. I didn’t want to rewire it at the time it was reported so I waited.
mwar15
Omono
I decided to set some of the branches with some larger copper wire I had. I also tilted the tree up to the left. I do think it looks better. The second picture I rotated it counterclockwise a bit and I think I like that a little bit better also. The back branch that Kinda swoops down into the right I don’t know if I’ll keep. I ran out of smaller wire so I couldn’t wire the rest of it out it’ll have to wait a few days.
I apologize ahead of time @Vance Wood if my wiring isn’t up to par. I’m working on it
I apologize ahead of time @Vance Wood if my wiring isn’t up to par. I’m working on it
Leo in N E Illinois
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I like the branch placement on the right side of the tree better in the first picture. This slant is definitely an improvement. You are on the right track now.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree with Leo , the line in the first picture seems more interesting to me, with the Shari and trunk flow overall! in the second picture the lower portion appears a bit too straight. I realise that the pictures are not the same as in person though. keep posting your progress, will be neat to see the result.I decided to set some of the branches with some larger copper wire I had. I also tilted the tree up to the left. I do think it looks better. The second picture I rotated it counterclockwise a bit and I think I like that a little bit better also. The back branch that Kinda swoops down into the right I don’t know if I’ll keep. I ran out of smaller wire so I couldn’t wire the rest of it out it’ll have to wait a few days.
View attachment 261869
View attachment 261870
I apologize ahead of time @Vance Wood if my wiring isn’t up to par. I’m working on it
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
If you or anyone else is offended by my mentioning wiring skills it is not because I want to embarrass you or anyone else, frankly I don't give a rats butt. However I do care about the material, Lodge Pole and Shore Pine are among my most favored trees. To the point, you cannot effectively deal with collected trees like these without reasonable wiring skills. Any thing less will damage the trees and do irreparable damage. A tree that has been living under the thumb of horrible conditions for a hundred years does not deserve to be treated that way.
mwar15
Omono
If I got offended I wouldn’t post trees here. You made me look at the wire as I took it off and analyze my wiring. I know if I post crap people will call it crap. I’m working on it. This is a great tree and deserves the best.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Don't call your stuff crap your material at the moment exceeds your ability, that can be remedied. If you have a constant stream of this type of material you really need to find a teacher and learn from them. It's not like you are learning on nursery trees where mistakes can be grown out and recovered from, you are learning on the good stuff with the eye of a beginner and the abilities of the same. I am not trying to be critical I am trying to kick you down the road into the arms of someone that can help you make something of this tree. It is obvious that you don't even know for sure what you are working with, or if you are, in knowing what to do with it. Please believe me I am only trying to help.
This thread is a perfect example of why so few people other than those new to bonsai and the old guard post here. @mwar15 asks for a pot recommendation and @Vance Wood feels compelled to lecture him on wiring. He already said it was a demo tree, wired by someone else. Do you think days were spent wiring it? No, maybe an hour. The tree wasn’t damaged by the initial wiring and without it would look like the other 10,000 I drive by everyday to work.
The person who collected the tree and wired it has effectively wrangled more 4 and 6 gauge wire than 99.9% of the people who regularly post here. He knows how to wire, but I doubt he thought this particular tree would be scrutinized by critical curmudgeons on the internet and has probably wired another couple hundred since.
@mwar15, I like the orientation change in the first picture too.
The person who collected the tree and wired it has effectively wrangled more 4 and 6 gauge wire than 99.9% of the people who regularly post here. He knows how to wire, but I doubt he thought this particular tree would be scrutinized by critical curmudgeons on the internet and has probably wired another couple hundred since.
@mwar15, I like the orientation change in the first picture too.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
To those who think I am wrong for trying to educate someone with a great tree and no idea what to do with it: Why don't you try to let someone know what is the right thing to do? Is it right to suggest a $300 to $400 bonsai pot to a grower that probably doesn't understand that a great tree affords a great pot? Of do we just pat someone on the back and tell them they will get better over time, when the fact is they wont until they start some instruction with someone who knows what they are doing. As to Farwest why don't you offer some advise other than pillory me. Near as I have seen over time you have not been very productive around here, so why don't you take your snow-flake philosophy and make a positive contribution.
