Help with first tree selection

[yashu]

That's actually a pretty nice looking tree, would you be keeping or suggest keeping something like that in the small pot like that or take it out and repot in a net pot with looser substrate to grow a bit ?

I immediately repotted into a grow pot with more volume and proper bonsai soil. The pot it came with was a decent quality Chinese mass production piece that I will find a use for at some point so that added some to the value of the purchase but my goal is to try to get some decent growth out of this plant so the bonsai pot was not optimal for this stage. The soil was not bad but it had a high percentage of organic matter. This would be good enough for a beginner as you could miss a watering or two and not suffer but again, not the best for my purposes. I also wanted to get at the roots which can get out of control quickly with a trident so changing out the soil just made sense at the time.

So to answer your questions, it would really depend on what you want to do for this next season. You could absolutely leave it be and it would be healthy and happy in the pot and soil that it came in.

 

[yashu]

Haha yeah I'm pretty new to area so I'll have to see what kind of saplings are prevalent , I know pitch pine is since I'm in the pine barrens.

Pitch pine are awesome. One of my favorite natives. There are several threads on collected pitch pines if you search the forum. They are only just starting to be really developed and show a ton of promise as they are a fairly reliable multiflush pine. The needles readily reduce and the bark can be excellent. IMO they are our own version of the JBP and could potentially be even better.

 

[BBNJ88]

For sure it's between Chinese elm, trident or maybe dawn redwood. Two things do you think it's rational to expect a decent tree for 50-60$ or should I up.the budget ?.

The other is should I get it into a pondbasket if so what mix and fertilizer would you suggest ?.

Quite welcome. I do love Chinese elm. They broke my golden rule of one species per bench. I think...I've 6 maybe? I'm tired...I can't think

 

[BBNJ88]

Pitch pine are awesome. One of my favorite natives. There are several threads on collected pitch pines if you search the forum. They are only just starting to be really developed and show a ton of promise as they are a fairly reliable multiflush pine. The needles readily reduce and the bark can be excellent. IMO they are our own version of the JBP and could potentially be even better.

Awesome I'll have to try and find one on Public land to liberate , would it be best to be start with a few year old seedling than something too large ?

 

[BBNJ88]

I immediately repotted into a grow pot with more volume and proper bonsai soil. The pot it came with was a decent quality Chinese mass production piece that I will find a use for at some point so that added some to the value of the purchase but my goal is to try to get some decent growth out of this plant so the bonsai pot was not optimal for this stage. The soil was not bad but it had a high percentage of organic matter. This would be good enough for a beginner as you could miss a watering or two and not suffer but again, not the best for my purposes. I also wanted to get at the roots which can get out of control quickly with a trident so changing out the soil just made sense at the time.

So to answer your questions, it would really depend on what you want to do for this next season. You could absolutely leave it be and it would be healthy and happy in the pot and soil that it came in.

Id love to give the plant I get some room to grow , in that case what size pond basket or growing pot would you suggest ? Also if you have time any advice on a good medium for the mix for growing it out and fertilizer type ? I see bio gold around a lot.

 

[Carol 83]

My go-to guy is Jason Schley.

We've been to his nursery several times. Super nice guy, gave us a tour of the nursery and showed us his personal trees. We flew, so he shipped my purchases to me for a very reasonable price.

 

[yashu]

Id love to give the plant I get some room to grow , in that case what size pond basket or growing pot would you suggest ? Also if you have time any advice on a good medium for the mix for growing it out and fertilizer type ? I see bio gold around a lot.

There are a hundred answers to both of those questions

The pot size doesn’t matter much as long as it’s bigger. If you’re going with a pond basket or grow bag and you choose one of the $35 tridents from Brussels that I posted a 1 gallon would be a good start. Many people who want to maximize growth will build a simple grow box and there are a few threads on here on that topic. It’s also cheap and very customizable.

Fertilizer can be as simple or complex as you like. @cmeg1 has some very in depth threads on fertilizing that many people on here have benefited from if you feel like taking a deep dive down the fertilizer rabbit hole. There are just as many, probably more who will tell you that MiracleGro or Osmacote is the only thing you’ll ever need and have results to back it up. Biogold is great for refined trees but IMO it’s money wasted on trees in development. I have my own stupid fertilizer program that works well for me but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be the same for you.

If I was pinned down and had to give fertilizer advice to a beginner I would suggest Osmacote. It’s a slow release fertilizer that you only need to apply 2 or 3 times during the growing season so it’s relatively foolproof. If you feel confident with that then move on to MiracleGro (Miracid I find to be better for most Bonsai… but not all) as it allows you much more flexibility but requires that you be attentive and have a plan. and… I’m going to pump the brakes right here before I get myself in trouble

 

[Cadillactaste]

For sure it's between Chinese elm, trident or maybe dawn redwood. Two things do you think it's rational to expect a decent tree for 50-60$ or should I up.the budget ?.

The other is should I get it into a pondbasket if so what mix and fertilizer would you suggest ?.

I would suggest you stay within your means. That said... if you would buy two trees...mentally thinking in that price point. I would skip the two and total the amount for nicer material.

99 cent auctions you can pick up things under $85. Actually...that's where this came from. Seller's name was Josh Brown.
This happens to lean away from the viewer in this image. It's the one I saved from auction. As you could see the movement better.

I repotted it this weekend. Onto an Erin tray. It's a Mother/daughter planting. a Chinese elm.

 

[Shibui]

if it's in a nursery pot should I repot it into a pond basket and some sort of mix ( any you would reccomend ?)

What would you suggest for fertilizer if I may ask.

Like so many other things bonsai pond basket seems to be open to debate. Pond basket will not grow you better trees or better bonsai than other pots and other techniques IMHO but you'll find some who are convinced it will. Pond basket does not seem to have an advantage here, in fact, trees often do worse but that's probably related to my care regime and hot, dry summers. I certainly get much better results with normal nursery pots or grow boxes combined with good root pruning to develop nebari.
Potting soils are even more hotly debated with most growers certain that their special mix is better than all others. In reality we can grow good bonsai in almost any mix if we match care to the soil.
Similar for fertiliser. Everyone has a favorite and it's always better than any other but I'm convinced that trees are only interested in nutrients so any fert with a good range of nutrients is great. I tend to alternate with several different types on the grounds that if one is deficient in something the others should round that out. I think the real key is to use something - anything. Without added nutrients our trees soon suffer nutrient deficiency because we water a lot and leach nutrients out of the pots very quickly.

 

[JudyB]

Do you have a club in your area? Sometimes if you go to your local club asking advice on what grows best in your area, the local members will almost always have material that they'd be happy to sell you of their own, and it may be better material than you can purchase online. And you can get local advice about best growing practices.
Welcome!

 

[BBNJ88]

Do you have a club in your area? Sometimes if you go to your local club asking advice on what grows best in your area, the local members will almost always have material that they'd be happy to sell you of their own, and it may be better material than you can purchase online. And you can get local advice about best growing practices.
Welcome!

I'll have to look around for sure and see what's available. I have two young daughters and with work it's nearly impossible to get alone time outside the house to attend anything like that.

 

[BBNJ88]

Like so many other things bonsai pond basket seems to be open to debate. Pond basket will not grow you better trees or better bonsai than other pots and other techniques IMHO but you'll find some who are convinced it will. Pond basket does not seem to have an advantage here, in fact, trees often do worse but that's probably related to my care regime and hot, dry summers. I certainly get much better results with normal nursery pots or grow boxes combined with good root pruning to develop nebari.
Potting soils are even more hotly debated with most growers certain that their special mix is better than all others. In reality we can grow good bonsai in almost any mix if we match care to the soil.
Similar for fertiliser. Everyone has a favorite and it's always better than any other but I'm convinced that trees are only interested in nutrients so any fert with a good range of nutrients is great. I tend to alternate with several different types on the grounds that if one is deficient in something the others should round that out. I think the real key is to use something - anything. Without added nutrients our trees soon suffer nutrient deficiency because we water a lot and leach nutrients out of the pots very quickly.

That makes so maybe just opt for osmocote and a well liked soil mix recipe and go from there would be the best bet ?

 

[BBNJ88]

I would suggest you stay within your means. That said... if you would buy two trees...mentally thinking in that price point. I would skip the two and total the amount for nicer material.

99 cent auctions you can pick up things under $85. Actually...that's where this came from. Seller's name was Josh Brown.
This happens to lean away from the viewer in this image. It's the one I saved from auction. As you could see the movement better. View attachment 585616

I repotted it this weekend. Onto an Erin tray. It's a Mother/daughter planting. a Chinese elm.
View attachment 585617View attachment 585618

That's a super nice plant, definitely gives off the large tree in a small pot vibe. I could definitely see that occuring in nature.

 

[BBNJ88]

There are a hundred answers to both of those questions

The pot size doesn’t matter much as long as it’s bigger. If you’re going with a pond basket or grow bag and you choose one of the $35 tridents from Brussels that I posted a 1 gallon would be a good start. Many people who want to maximize growth will build a simple grow box and there are a few threads on here on that topic. It’s also cheap and very customizable.

Fertilizer can be as simple or complex as you like. @cmeg1 has some very in depth threads on fertilizing that many people on here have benefited from if you feel like taking a deep dive down the fertilizer rabbit hole. There are just as many, probably more who will tell you that MiracleGro or Osmacote is the only thing you’ll ever need and have results to back it up. Biogold is great for refined trees but IMO it’s money wasted on trees in development. I have my own stupid fertilizer program that works well for me but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be the same for you.

If I was pinned down and had to give fertilizer advice to a beginner I would suggest Osmacote. It’s a slow release fertilizer that you only need to apply 2 or 3 times during the growing season so it’s relatively foolproof. If you feel confident with that then move on to MiracleGro (Miracid I find to be better for most Bonsai… but not all) as it allows you much more flexibility but requires that you be attentive and have a plan. and… I’m going to pump the brakes right here before I get myself in trouble

Awesome advice I really appreciate it, could I twist your arm for a basic potting mix recipe you would suggest for nursery pots,pond basket, grow bag for growing out one of those for a few years ?

When I repot it should I mess with the roots since I'm so new or let them rock for a year or two ?

 

[Cadillactaste]

That's a super nice plant, definitely gives off the large tree in a small pot vibe. I could definitely see that occuring in nature.

Thank ya kindly.

It spoke to me...it wasn't getting a lot of attention on the auction. I tell myself, I'm not getting more trees. But...this one, hooked me in. I could see it planted in that tray of Erin's. I'm a sucker for Mother/daughter...and, I don't have one. So I can justify any purchase. lol When I want it. It really was relatively cheap material...but, it's going to be fun to watch it become more. That...and it's a Chinese Elm...and I do love working with them. They offer so much in a short time. Have small foliage. Just a charming species.

 

[BBNJ88]

Thank ya kindly.

It spoke to me...it wasn't getting a lot of attention on the auction. I tell myself, I'm not getting more trees. But...this one, hooked me in. I could see it planted in that tray of Erin's. I'm a sucker for Mother/daughter...and, I don't have one. So I can justify any purchase. lol When I want it. It really was relatively cheap material...but, it's going to be fun to watch it become more. That...and it's a Chinese Elm...and I do love working with them. They offer so much in a short time. Have small foliage. Just a charming species.

I'm not sure what your growing area is like in comparison to mine in Jersey (7a) but I was wondering if I could pester you for some advice on a soil mix composition for deciduous trees to grow them out in nursery pots or pond baskets for a year or two before starting work on them.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I'm not sure what your growing area is like in comparison to mine in Jersey (7a) but I was wondering if I could pester you for some advice on a soil mix composition for deciduous trees to grow them out in nursery pots or pond baskets for a year or two before starting work on them.

I'm zone 4 NE Ohio. All my deciduous go into Aoki a Japanese blend except my ginkgo and trident clump. It's what Scott Lee uses...and he was my original go-to guy before he stopped handling a lot of deciduous. Which is why Jason is my now go-to guy.

There is a break down of what it is. For ones to make their own. I happen to not know it. As I prefer buying pre-made.

I don't use pond baskets. I just don't like the look of them. I have good luck with trees in Aoki. I'll say this... this Catlin Elm came from Jason. It's in a small pot. I only needed to build the canopy. The tree's bones there. Was in a small pot since with me.

This is what three years was for me. Jason uses Boon mix. Which is simular to Aoki but doesn't hold as much moisture. Because I use Clay King which is what Boon mix is to compare to. For my JBP and my ginkgo.


Don't get me wrong. I have trees up potted. In training pots or ceramic pots that are bigger than a finished pot. But my first elm...came in a tiny pots and developed great in it. Again I wasn't growing out the trunk. But the structure for the canopy.

 

[Jrmcmich]

I'm zone 4 NE Ohio. All my deciduous go into Aoki a Japanese blend except my ginkgo and trident clump. It's what Scott Lee uses...and he was my original go-to guy before he stopped handling a lot of deciduous. Which is why Jason is my now go-to guy.

There is a break down of what it is. For ones to make their own. I happen to not know it. As I prefer buying pre-made.

I don't use pond baskets. I just don't like the look of them. I have good luck with trees in Aoki. I'll say this... this Catlin Elm came from Jason. It's in a small pot. I only needed to build the canopy. The tree's bones there. Was in a small pot since with me.

This is what three years was for me. Jason uses Boon mix. Which is simular to Aoki but doesn't hold as much moisture. Because I use Clay King which is what Boon mix is to compare to. For my JBP and my ginkgo.


Don't get me wrong. I have trees up potted. In training pots or ceramic pots that are bigger than a finished pot. But my first elm...came in a tiny pots and developed great in it. Again I wasn't growing out the trunk. But the structure for the canopy.
View attachment 585656

Didn’t realize any oh Ohio in zone 4? I’m in NE Ohio and it’s zone 6. Always like your trees and pot combinations. Good eye

 

[JudyB]

I'm not sure what your growing area is like in comparison to mine in Jersey (7a) but I was wondering if I could pester you for some advice on a soil mix composition for deciduous trees to grow them out in nursery pots or pond baskets for a year or two before starting work on them.

A blend of Akadama (high fired- AKA -double or triple line hard Akadama) mixed with Kiryu or pumice (in the right sizes) will work for almost all deciduous trees. If you are unsure of how to mix and what sizes to get, the best thing to do is just get a bag of already blended components. As you get more trees, you'll want to probably mix your own, as it's a bit cheaper to do that way. If you buy a tree from a resectable nursery or seller, the tree should already be set to go for that season in good soil. There are caveats to this as some people in dry climates do mix organic components into mixes. I suggest an actual conversation with your seller about what you should do with the tree this season. A good seller will be happy to help you out.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Didn’t realize any oh Ohio in zone 4? I’m in NE Ohio and it’s zone 6. Always like your trees and pot combinations. Good eye

Private lake front microclimate. It's why I lost my ryusen in my landscape that now is bonsai.

The zone map is wrong for my area. They even went so far to bump it up to be warmer than what it was already. Anyone planting things in the ground here for landscape will lose them. If they follow the map zones. Again...microclimate. I'm completely different than 8 miles into town. Our landscape is even slower to wake.