Help me decide which trees I should collect!

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Maybe stupid question but would not be good idea to trunk chop the ones that not going to be collected this year?
As the roots are still in the ground would that not helped with recovery? They going to be trunk chopped anyway when collecting so why not to do it year or 2 earlier ?

Trunk chopping a tree in the field a year or two before collecting can (often does, but not always) backfire. In a forest, where the tree is competing for light through the canopy, chopping the tree will put it at a competitive disadvantage with the other trees around it. Similar with chopping roots, you can put the tree you want at a competitive disadvantage, and risk the tree dying before you can collect it. Even if it doesn't kill the tree, the competition from the surrounding trees can weaken the back budding you were hoping for. More often than not chopping a tree in the wild, then coming back later to collect does not yield results as good as doing it all at once, collect, chop and root prune as you are collecting the tree. Just my personal experience.

Even trees in an open field. Chopped and root pruned some elms, their main competition was grass. The dry summer just about killed them. Other elms collected without pre-treatment did much better with back budding and forming tight close in roots. The dry spells in summer competing with grasses for water was enough to cause a poor response. Even in the easiest of species to collect - elms.

So I do not recommend doing either root, or trunk chopping in the wild the year or two before collecting.

 

[rockm]

Maybe stupid question but would not be good idea to trunk chop the ones that not going to be collected this year?
As the roots are still in the ground would that not helped with recovery? They going to be trunk chopped anyway when collecting so why not to do it year or 2 earlier ?

Topping the tree, then leaving it, is a very bad technique that can wind up killing what you leave behind. A lot of trees can't regenerate enough new growth to compete against their unchopped neighbors, which capitalize on the new light created by the removal of the canopy. Other times, trees (like these) are growing in less than ideal conditions and have been doing so for decades. They expend only as much energy to survive. In removing most, if not all of their top growth that supports their root systems, the roots die off.

When I first started collecting trees, I followed the same line of reasoning that "if I only chop the trunk and leave the tree, I can get a jump on top development." Almost every tree I did that to (and there were dozens) died--even though many of them pushed new shoots and leaves in the weeks after the chop. Some leafed out and grew through the summer, only to die the next spring as their strength gave out. All that told me that trees are in competition with one another and rely on what they've built up over the decades growing on their one site.

My experience has been that if you dig deciduous trees all at once, removing top and root growth at the same time, the tree HAS to respond with new growth in both areas to survive.

If you remove only top growth, the tree has no way to "feed" the substantial root mass that both supported and relied on the top growth.

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

My advice stands.

If you have not collected before watching a video on how to do it doesn't give you experience. Cedar elm and hackberry are you best bets for initial success. Digging all kinds of trees all at once is not a great way to get bonsai.



Patience is not only a virtue in bonsai, it is a tool. Why dig trees with potential (and there are a few with great potential in the photos) only to have them die off because you rushed it?

The guy in the vid has decent techniques, but each tree is different. The trees you've pictured, with the exception of the cedar elms and hackberries, will probably have some issues with drastic root reduction. I've collected blackhaw. Bigger that the one in vid. I collected my initial trees in the same manner a very long time ago. They lived for a year, but sulked and finally died off. My inexperience played a big role in that. I collected ALL of them in my area (they're not all that common--it was about five trees), now there are none--all because I got greedy and didn't take the time to learn what works and what doesn't.

and BTW - "Verifying" radial roots at a collectible depth is interesting... Might be so, but it's the underneath part of the tree that is the biggest concern. In my experience digging oaks in Texas, most have SUBSTANTIAL tap roots that many species object horribly to having severed all at once--or at all--good luck. This white oak in my parent's place in Tyler has a great trunk. It is also rooted to Beijing on the other side of the planet.
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@ro

understand your stance on the issue but how else do you suggest one gains real experience in any venture in life? The only way is to do it. I would not blindly go out and collect all of the specimens of a certain species. There are hundreds of more mature viburnum in the area so I would not think that taking two or so would affect the population too much. Same with the basically all of the other trees I’ve pictured.

I will definitely keep your advice in mind though! I know it’s not a race

 

[rockm]

@ro

understand your stance on the issue but how else do you suggest one gains real experience in any venture in life? The only way is to do it. I would not blindly go out and collect all of the specimens of a certain species. There are hundreds of more mature viburnum in the area so I would not think that taking two or so would affect the population too much. Same with the basically all of the other trees I’ve pictured.

I will definitely keep your advice in mind though! I know it’s not a race

I think experience is fine. That's why I suggest starting out with Cedar Elm and Hackberry. Both species are relatively easy to get out alive and then recover quickly. It's best to start with something that WILL ACTUALLY GIVE YOU EXPERIENCE rather than just die on you a couple of months from now.

You have a very long list of candidates some are not at all easy to get out alive. Some are known for mostly being pretty damn cranky--hello Ashe Juniper...

I also know that beginners VASTLY overestimate their skills and underestimate what they're going to dig up. That combination leads not only to a lot of dead trees, but a lot of disappointment and mistaking "experience" with "unsuccessful waste of time."

 

[eryk2kartman]

Thanks guys for clarifying, it all make sense now.

 

[Johnathan]

I will chime in with a mistake I made with collecting my first tree.....

"What you see is not what you really see"

What I mean by that is, you will need to clear the base area around the tree so that you can ACTUALLY see the trunk.

My first tree looked great to me with my 2 months of experience at the time, but when I went to collect it and realized there was about 5 or 6 inches worth of dead leaves and mud and other stuff built up.... and another 7 - 10 inches beneath the soil before any roots..... suddenly that sweet trunk with the movement at 4 inches was now a straight pole the first foot ??‍

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

I was able to lift an oak this weekend and I’m pretty happy with the nice feeder roots I got out with it. Luckily for me it was sitting on a pretty solid rock platform that encouraged a radial root spread. I think I’m gonna leave it y’all and go for a more naturallistic appearance.

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

Just wanted to share some spring growth on some of my oaks!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Looking good.

If you know you always will be working on oaks, might as well start right away learning oaks. Nicel root spread. Better than anything I expect around here.

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

Just wanted to update everyone. The trees are still kicking! Here’s a couple of pics of the largest one. I’ve put some guy wires in a couple of branches. I reduced the apex a bit and now have a nice vigorous leader coming in during its second flush of growth. I probably need to put some wire on it to get a bit of movement but I’ll see how it develops for a week or two.

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

Here’s another oak that was collected this spring. It pretty much has all the bones already in place. Just need to make sure it stays healthy and then work on refinement and getting it into a bonsai pot. The leaves are a little burnt from the really hot summer we had but it held on to them and it’s even pushing out a second flush so I think it’s getting some juice from it’s roots! These oaks are known for a showy red color in the fall but I’m not sure this one is going to put on a show for me this year. Can’t wait to see it next spring.

 

[Johnathan]

I like it!! Great job. how far are you from OKC I need some oaks in my life!

 

[Woocash]

Oakie doke.

 

[Big Country Bonsai]

I like it!! Great job. how far are you from OKC I need some oaks in my life!

I’m a good 5 hour drive from there haha. I don’t have any I want to party work at this point but if I get any I’ll let you know!