Giant Sequoia Potting Advise

[theone420]

So I ordered 2 Giant Sequoia from giant-sequoia.com. They both seem healthy and I wanted to get your advise before doing any potting.

The idea is to put one in a pot and start the process of converting the roots to small container life.
The other will be put the the ground and allowed to spread out a bit more.

I understand it will be a challenge to grow these in the desert where I am(it can get up over 120F here in the summer). I do however manage to grow a lot of things I shouldn't. So I figured, why not. and I ordered the two trees before winter in order to give them a chance to experience our 50degree lows. and get ready for a long ride next summer. I think I can keep them in some shade and get some air flow with some misters and maybe get the temps down enough to help.

But........First I want to ask if they seem healthy and maybe ready for a larger pot and maybe a 2" root reduction from the bottom of the pot as suggested by .giant-sequoia.com's reference page for reducing 1gl pots for bonsai, or should that wait?
And I wanted to confirm that the yellowish-green tips is new growth.

 

[Guy Vitale]

Without proper dormancy and extreme summer temps you are fighting a losing battle. I ordered my first Sequoias from Jim Welker on the same site 10 years ago, proceed with caution when reducing the rootball, scrape some off the top and slice off 2-3 inches off the bottom and place in a rectangular pot larger than the remaining rootball, don't attempt to rake out the roots. This should be done when the tree is waking up from dormancy. Good luck.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I will admit that I have never kept these, however I have wondered about them here in the OC.

For what it's worth, there is a stand growing up by Idyllwild (about 30 minutes south of Palm Springs - but about a half mile higher elevation). From what I've heard they can take the heat, but cannot take drought.

 

[hemmy]

Here’s a link to one I killed. They are fast root growers and it’s important to keep them well watered, especially in your climate. The dry Santa Ana’s wind scorched mine pretty good one year, which was an indication that it wasn’t getting enough water to maintain transpiration.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/in-memoriam-giant-sequoia.23411/

When you root prune don’t disturb the white fleshy roots and I believe you can remove the darker brown roots.

 

[sorce]

Note my fun factoid.

These trees grow beyond their own capability to transport water via capillary action in the cells....

So they take in water via the foliage.

Hence....they dry out mad quicker than other trees.

Palm Springs......into face?

Face Palm!

Don't let it win!

Sorce

 

[Bonsai Nut]

In answer to your question about repotting, I wouldn't touch them until January, personally. I would also try to find a spot where they are protected from sun and wind from June-Sept.

 

[Guy Vitale]

Definitely worth a try and not mention to discourage you, these guys are tricky under the best of circumstances. Certainly don't let them dry out ever especially when it's extra hot, but make sure the soil is not soggy either, I use the smaller particles I sift out of my regular soil with some coarser soil mixed in.. I recommend morning sun only once temps hit over 80 degrees, shade the rest of the day. Again with repotting, it's not recommended to comb out the roots but to slice the ends like a cake. Also, the wind can desiccate them pretty quickly especially when it's cold.

 

[theone420]

I am thinking I have a spot for them. In the green square in the attached photo. there is a 14ft brick wall between my house and the neighbors since their house is above ours behind the wall is dirt and it helps keep the wall cooler in summer. I can put misters along the wall and even cover with a good shade cloth from the wall to the house if needed.
In the yellow square is our covered patio almost the size as the house. so I have a lot of room there with 2 skylights to allow for some sun and a ceiling fan to move the air.
And as you can see in this photo I can make things grow.(have 3 bunches of bananas going right now)


and as you can see in this pic I do live in the desert

 

[theone420]

if you look behind the plants in this pic you can see the area I plan on putting them. you can see it is a large wall and there used to be a waterfall in the corner but it started leaking to much water so I filled it up with compost/sand mixture and it is being used to grow plumerias for now.

 

[AlainK]

A very difficult tree to keep, all the more difficult to shape.

they take in water via the foliage.
Hence....they dry out mad quicker than other trees.

The sorcerer is right: the pb comes from dry air. Like other trees (thinking of European larch that don't fare well here), they like the morning dew, misty mornings, even when it's hot during the day (same problems here with Cryptomeria: low branches die, a lot of die-back)

I used to have one that was beginning to look decent. I've kept a cutting...

Unless you live in a place with a similar climate, a very difficult tree, a real challenge, but worth trying.

 

[theone420]

thanks for all the advise guys. I am going to leave one alone until spring then I will do a re-pot. the other I will get in the ground so it can grow and get ready for the summer.

Ill keep the thread updated with pics when i do any work or if the trees die do to my desert climate.

 

[Halifax]

Rather than start a new thread, I'm going to add to this one. New to bonsai, but I've been an alpine/rock gardener for about 5 years.

I have a 7-year-old giant sequoia that I purchased from Joe Welker about two weeks ago. It seems to be struggling and browning up. I have been watering it but we (New England) have been in an extended rainy period for a couple of weeks. Hopefully I am not overwatering it. Any comments regarding the foliage? Also, I contacted Joe today and he said that the tree has outgrown the pot (it's an impenetrable mass) and I need to repot it. Current pot size is 7.5" x 5.0" x 2.5". My question is, should I repot this into a larger bonsai pot or go with a significantly larger standard pot? I know that it is best to pot during dormancy but this is how I received the tree and it needs intervention. In the photos, the stone slabs are to prevent the tree from blowing over. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Harry.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

When you have a sequoia browning from the bottom up, it is probably the roots. (top down would be sun or not enough water)

This is the wrong time to transplant, but I would pop it out of that pot and stick it in a container twice as large with good bonsai soil mix. Don't mess with the roots or try to remove the soil (right now) just slip-pot it. Don't forget, you are working with one of the fastest-growing tree species in the planet. They almost need annual repotting unless you are aggressively trimming the foliage.

FWIW I sent my sister a coast redwood and giant sequoia this spring after we had vacationed together in Sequoia NP. She planted them up in her landscape with my admonition that they can easily grow 6'+ per year. I'll let you know in a few years how it turns out

 

[MichaelS]

Halifax, post: 587502, Rather than start a new thread, I'm going to add to this one. New to bonsai, but I've been an alpine/rock gardener for about 5 years.

I have a 7-year-old giant sequoia that I purchased from Joe Welker about two weeks ago. It seems to be struggling and browning up. I have been watering it but we (New England) have been in an extended rainy period for a couple of weeks. Hopefully I am not overwatering it. Any comments regarding the foliage? Also, I contacted Joe today and he said that the tree has outgrown the pot (it's an impenetrable mass) and I need to repot it. Current pot size is 7.5" x 5.0" x 2.5". My question is, should I repot this into a larger bonsai pot or go with a significantly larger standard pot? I know that it is best to pot during dormancy but this is how I received the tree and it needs intervention. In the photos, the stone slabs are to prevent the tree from blowing over. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Harry.

If you want to grow a formal upright conifer like this, unfortunately this is not the way to go about it.
Sequoiadendron is extremely apically dominant, therefore you need to continually supress the top of the tree. This is because the top of the tree will supress the growth lower down and also because you want to induce a fair amount of taper in the trunk. The reason the lower branches are weakening is because the tree is putting all it's efforts into the top. The fact that it is root bound and has begun to run out of nutrients just compounds this tendency.
So what do you do? Ideally you should replace the leader at a very early stage. Perhaps when the tree is no more than 2 years old. There are various ways of achieving a smooth transition from the remaining trunk into the new leader but the easiest is to locate the most vertically positioned branch at more or less half way up the trunk, cut it off at that point and wire the new shoot vertically. Most remaining kinks left will disappear in time. The following year, you repeat the process by finding a new leader half way (more or less) up the previous year's new leader. In the mean time, all lower branches will gain strength and should be retained until the are beginning to approach the thickness of the main stem. Keep repeating this for as many years as it takes to reach the kind of proportions you are looking for. Any strong branches high up in the tree which potentially cause thickening should be thinned out. In other words you need to remove any branch which may interfere with the final goal always keeping the forced induction of taper in your mind.
This process will keep the tree in a state where vigorous branching and foliage is maintained evenly throughout the length of the tree. The smaller branches along the length are the ones that will eventually be used to form the branches so these must be preserved and looked after. If they begin to weaken, their competition should be supressed or removed entirely.
Your tree may still be able to be saved. (in the sense that it may not be too late to begin the above process if you take the right action). Ideally it would have branches further down the trunk but you can only work with what you have now. I recommend feeding the tree now to try to increase it's overall vigour. We cannot add branches, we can only take away so I suggest that besides feeding well, reduce the top by about one third of it's mass and find a short branch to make a new leader. Hopefully this will induce buds to break further down the trunk. If so, then these buds should be encouraged. Fortunately, Sequoiadendron have a strong tendency to do this. It must be repotted of course as soon as the correct time of the year comes around.

BTW, what variety of Hinoki is that in the background. Looks very nice!

 

[Halifax]

When you have a sequoia browning from the bottom up, it is probably the roots. (top down would be sun or not enough water)

This is the wrong time to transplant, but I would pop it out of that pot and stick it in a container twice as large with good bonsai soil mix. Don't mess with the roots or try to remove the soil (right now) just slip-pot it. Don't forget, you are working with one of the fastest-growing tree species in the planet. They almost need annual repotting unless you are aggressively trimming the foliage.

FWIW I sent my sister a coast redwood and giant sequoia this spring after we had vacationed together in Sequoia NP. She planted them up in her landscape with my admonition that they can easily grow 6'+ per year. I'll let you know in a few years how it turns out

Thanks, BN, I am going to repot it tonight. Here is a pair of photos of the root ball. I am kinda shocked that it was sold to me like this without instructions to repot immediately, but what do I know, I am new at this game.

 

[Halifax]

If you want to grow a formal upright conifer like this, unfortunately this is not the way to go about it.
Sequoiadendron is extremely apically dominant, therefore you need to continually supress the top of the tree. This is because the top of the tree will supress the growth lower down and also because you want to induce a fair amount of taper in the trunk. The reason the lower branches are weakening is because the tree is putting all it's efforts into the top. The fact that it is root bound and has begun to run out of nutrients just compounds this tendency.
So what do you do? Ideally you should replace the leader at a very early stage. Perhaps when the tree is no more than 2 years old. There are various ways of achieving a smooth transition from the remaining trunk into the new leader but the easiest is to locate the most vertically positioned branch at more or less half way up the trunk, cut it off at that point and wire the new shoot vertically. Most remaining kinks left will disappear in time. The following year, you repeat the process by finding a new leader half way (more or less) up the previous year's new leader. In the mean time, all lower branches will gain strength and should be retained until the are beginning to approach the thickness of the main stem. Keep repeating this for as many years as it takes to reach the kind of proportions you are looking for. Any strong branches high up in the tree which potentially cause thickening should be thinned out. In other words you need to remove any branch which may interfere with the final goal always keeping the forced induction of taper in your mind.
This process will keep the tree in a state where vigorous branching and foliage is maintained evenly throughout the length of the tree. The smaller branches along the length are the ones that will eventually be used to form the branches so these must be preserved and looked after. If they begin to weaken, their competition should be supressed or removed entirely.
Your tree may still be able to be saved. (in the sense that it may not be too late to begin the above process if you take the right action). Ideally it would have branches further down the trunk but you can only work with what you have now. I recommend feeding the tree now to try to increase it's overall vigour. We cannot add branches, we can only take away so I suggest that besides feeding well, reduce the top by about one third of it's mass and find a short branch to make a new leader. Hopefully this will induce buds to break further down the trunk. If so, then these buds should be encouraged. Fortunately, Sequoiadendron have a strong tendency to do this. It must be repotted of course as soon as the correct time of the year comes around.

BTW, what variety of Hinoki is that in the background. Looks very nice!

Hi Michael,
Thank you for the reply and the detailed advice, it is greatly appreciated.
So I have to repot immediately. How long should I wait before feeding, and how long should I wait for cutting back the top?
The tree in the background is a T. occidentalis Primo (‘IslPrim’) from ISeli, found at a garden shop in the Berkshires. It is the best IslPrim I've ever seen yet!
Thanks again,
Harry

 

[Halifax]

Sorry for the Godzilla-sized photos, Friends. I won't do it again.

 

[MichaelS]

Hi Michael,
Thank you for the reply and the detailed advice, it is greatly appreciated.
So I have to repot immediately. How long should I wait before feeding, and how long should I wait for cutting back the top?
The tree in the background is a T. occidentalis Primo (‘IslPrim’) from ISeli, found at a garden shop in the Berkshires. It is the best IslPrim I've ever seen yet!
Thanks again,
Harry

Looks like at least some roots are reasonably active. I'm not familiar with your conditions/weather/growing environment etc, so I can't give you a definitive answer about repotting now. If it's not too hot and you can shade the tree for a few weeks you should be ok to prune a few of the longest roots after you tease them out. I would not take more than about 10-15% off right now. You can do a proper repot next spring maybe. So just shave off the outer 1 or 2 inches, tease out a bit and repot into the same pot not a big one. If you have 1 or 2 inches of room for the new roots that will be enough to kick-start the tree. Don't feed for at least 6 weeks. There will be enough nutrients in the new mix. Also, use the same particle size as the old mix or perhaps a little finer. Not coarser! Fix the tree to the pot so it does not move and then wait. After a few weeks put it back out in full sun. Mist as often as you like but only water when it has dried out a little. Use a kelp product a couple of times to get the roots going. This is my procedure when I must repot in summer. I have never liked the ''slip-pot'' thing. If you can wait until it cools down a little (very hot there now right?) it would probably be better. Good luck.

 

[Halifax]

Thank you, Sir. I'm in Northwest Connecticut and we're in the middle of a warm and rainy/humid spell. I can keep it out on the roofed porch out of direct sunlight. Just repotted it and wired it into the pot. I saved your earlier response on how to shape it ... thanks for that detailed info!

 

[coh]

Rather than start a new thread, I'm going to add to this one. New to bonsai, but I've been an alpine/rock gardener for about 5 years.

I have a 7-year-old giant sequoia that I purchased from Joe Welker about two weeks ago. It seems to be struggling and browning up. I have been watering it but we (New England) have been in an extended rainy period for a couple of weeks. Hopefully I am not overwatering it. Any comments regarding the foliage? Also, I contacted Joe today and he said that the tree has outgrown the pot (it's an impenetrable mass) and I need to repot it. Current pot size is 7.5" x 5.0" x 2.5". My question is, should I repot this into a larger bonsai pot or go with a significantly larger standard pot? I know that it is best to pot during dormancy but this is how I received the tree and it needs intervention. In the photos, the stone slabs are to prevent the tree from blowing over. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Harry.

So, a couple of thoughts regarding giant sequoia. I have one that I'm working on developing a trunk so this is based on my experience with 1 specimen in a cold climate.

1) This is the time of year the tree sheds old/unnecessary growth (mine is doing it too), so some of what you are seeing can be explained by that. However, it is somewhat unusual to see such a lack of branching lower on your trunk. Mine has maintained lower branches (though they are getting longer/leggy) quite far down the trunk, and I also have some smaller shoots continually growing off the lower trunk. This suggests to me your tree is stressed. I'm guessing the pot is just too small for that size tree.

2) These are supposedly finicky when it comes to root work. If you are going to repot now (or if you already did), I would recommend not being too aggressive. If it were mine, I'd just tease out some of those compacted roots and pot it into a somewhat larger container with similar soil. I'd wait until spring to do any more significant root work. FWIW, I've been just up-potting my tree to larger containers for about 7 years and this spring was the first time I got in there and did some major root surgery. Tree seems to have responded well but I still have a lot to do.

3) What is you future plan/vision for the tree? If you want to grow a larger trunk I think you'll have to gradually move it to a significantly larger container over the next couple of years. I would hold off on any trunk chops until it regains vigor and shows strong growth.

I don't have any recent pics of mine but here are some from 2 years ago: sequoia pics
I'll try to get some updated ones in the next few days.