Get out of the water! You’re getting all Prunus!

[Japonicus]

Man oh man! Look at that soil grip and trunk. Glad you got buds to push down, that's awesome @HorseloverFat

 

[Japonicus]

stole them for there high value wood

That's terrible terrible. Doubly terrible it is.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Man oh man! Look at that soil grip and trunk. Glad you got buds to push down, that's awesome @HorseloverFat

Thank you!! I was Super excited to see that my "chasing" worked!!

It's trying to push ALL over that mature bark! I have to "fingernail" them off!!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Like what you have done . Very interesting about the root cuttings . Makes sense they are so prone to sucker from the trunk . When damaged . I’ll gladly take any advice you have ie soil feeding whatever you have . That can help . Reason I started several from seed . Then as I told you quit bonsai for 10 years . They were planted I. The ground . As a rear north border to my veg garden . After they were well started into winter last fall I hard trunk chopped several . Initial plan is see what happens this spring . Suspect they will just promote suckers . But if I can stop that and get some decent budding . Give them a year and dig next spring . What I really want is a attempt at Prunus serotina black cherry Had planned a visit to my uncles property . He has a grove of them mature trees on the back of his land . Unfortunately someone last year . Drove a large truck as close as they could get to them and stole them for there high value wood . So goes part of his retirement fund .

I'm very sorry!! That's aweful!!

..regarding the root cuttings, and this specie... VERY delectable to woodland critters.. all my root cuttings were... salad. But I have more, now.

It WAS in a crude, 50/50 mix of collection soil/inorganic growth/development mix I make..

Now is in a roughly 1/3 organic mix bark, peat, and recycled inorganic soil.. top-dressed with the PREVIOUS substrate. So I'd say "Acid-Prone". It gets Light-Moderate Acid-Loving Granular with weekly fish emulsion (watered slowly in between passes for foliar-feeding benefit ((I've seen PROOF foliar feeding is "a thing" while working for Kurt Dramm.))) during the growth season.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

That's terrible terrible. Doubly terrible it is.

Yea it is . Unfortunately not that uncommon . Culprit is likely . A large forestry company . Practice is steal the trees . Hard to get proof and convict . If they get prosecuted high priced attorneys will just claim it was a mistake . The stumps will be measured . Value of wood estimated . Rightful owner will get the woods value . And they will end up fined . So the outcome is they will get it stole for free . Or end up paying about double the woods value if convicted . Was planning to get some young plants from the grove and or seeds . The trees are known to be very variable some or no more than shrubs . Some can be huge trees . Like my uncles . I was interested in that genetics . But know my uncle says go ahead . But I feel anything there should be left . To recreate the grove .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I'm very sorry!! That's aweful!!

..regarding the root cuttings, and this specie... VERY delectable to woodland critters.. all my root cuttings were... salad. But I have more, now.

It WAS in a crude, 50/50 mix of collection soil/inorganic growth/development mix I make..

Now is in a roughly 1/3 organic mix bark, peat, and recycled inorganic soil.. top-dressed with the PREVIOUS substrate. So I'd say "Acid-Prone". It gets Light-Moderate Acid-Loving Granular with weekly fish emulsion (watered slowly in between passes for foliar-feeding benefit ((I've seen PROOF foliar feeding is "a thing" while working for Kurt Dramm.))) during the growth season.

So do you think I should remove any suckers . As I planned to attempt to force the tree to bud from the trunk or let them grow to keep the tree alive . I don’t mind being fairly risky as I have several more . Actually the nicest is a multi trunk tree . About 18 feet high untouched .

 

[HorseloverFat]

So do you think I should remove any suckers . As I planned to attempt to force the tree to bud from the trunk or let them grow to keep the tree alive . I don’t mind being fairly risky as I have several more . Actually the nicest is a multi trunk tree . About 18 feet high untouched .

On trees which PROFUSELY produce suckers.. like this prunus, Loniceras, Fraxinus, Serissa, most vines..(many others)

I immediately remove suckers which cannot be envisioned as a portion of the design.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

On trees which PROFUSELY produce suckers.. like this prunus, Loniceras, Fraxinus, Serissa, most vines..(many others)

I immediately remove suckers which cannot be envisioned as a portion of the design.

That was my plan just spit balling . Best practice after drastic chop . After all a dead tree don’t work also but my thinking is tree was healthy . So remove suckers attempt force buds in better location . After all it’s also a education . Attempt

 

[HorseloverFat]

That was my plan just spit balling . Best practice after drastic chop . After all a dead tree don’t work also but my thinking is tree was healthy . So remove suckers attempt force buds in better location . After all it’s also a education . Attempt

For every action.. there is an equal or opposite reaction.

Every "move" made is an opportunity for learning and growth.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Correct Ying Yang. Also curious . II have some seeds . Collected this winter . Parent trees are multi stem shrubs about 3 feet tall . Trunks up to about 3 four inches across out of 6 to 8 inch base budding and branching has nice ramification . Trunk bark buds all look prunus . Have not seen in leaf or flower . Yet the kicker that got my attention is the cold hardiness . Trees in 3 foot container box in front of office building zone 4 and very small dead leaves 1 to 1.5 inches length Every part looks miniature prunus collected about 20 seeds

 

[HorseloverFat]

Correct Ying Yang. Also curious . II have some seeds . Collected this winter . Parent trees are multi stem shrubs about 3 feet tall . Trunks up to about 3 four inches across out of 6 to 8 inch base budding and branching has nice ramification . Trunk bark buds all look prunus . Have not seen in leaf or flower . Yet the kicker that got my attention is the cold hardiness . Trees in 3 foot container box in front of office building zone 4 and very small dead leaves 1 to 1.5 inches length Every part looks miniature prunus collected about 20 seeds

COOL! that'll be sweet if you can "stabilize" that attribute!

This guy survived here.. basically unprotected it's first winter... in that crappy, plastic-duct-tape container... sooo I'd ESTIMATE (didn't check) they are hardy, in ground to 3.. that means even by YOU, they'd BARELY need protection, in containers.

Edit:.. I NOW see that's exactly what you said!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Maybe I was not clear the cut down ones I have are prunes virg the other one I coke Tex seeds from . I have no idea what it is just looks like our us may not even be . As for . Your prunus virg . Dirt says zone 2 to 6 . They grow very far north and take extreme cold . My understanding is the cold keeps disease and bugs that attack it at bay . They can freeze solid . It’s pest control in warmer zones . That may be the bigger concern . But anywhere there native should be cold enough . I just would not baby it in winter

 

[HorseloverFat]

Maybe I was not clear the cut down ones I have are prunes virg the other one I coke Tex seeds from . I have no idea what it is just looks like our us may not even be . As for . Your prunus virg . Dirt says zone 2 to 6 . They grow very far north and take extreme cold . My understanding is the cold keeps disease and bugs that attack it at bay . They can freeze solid . It’s pest control in warmer zones . That may be the bigger concern . But anywhere there native should be cold enough . I just would not baby it in winter

Hehe ALL my trees freeze solid.

But that sounds right.

 

[ShadyStump]

Yea it is . Unfortunately not that uncommon . Culprit is likely . A large forestry company . Practice is steal the trees . Hard to get proof and convict . If they get prosecuted high priced attorneys will just claim it was a mistake . The stumps will be measured . Value of wood estimated . Rightful owner will get the woods value . And they will end up fined . So the outcome is they will get it stole for free . Or end up paying about double the woods value if convicted . Was planning to get some young plants from the grove and or seeds . The trees are known to be very variable some or no more than shrubs . Some can be huge trees . Like my uncles . I was interested in that genetics . But know my uncle says go ahead . But I feel anything there should be left . To recreate the grove .

Sounds allot like the guy who came through the local forest service office and bought up 4,000 personal use transplant permits in one go. It's not like people don't know what's happening, but they just keep letting it happen.

 

[HorseloverFat]

What's the deal with ChokeCherry Lumber?

It smells... different than other wood when I cut it.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Sounds allot like the guy who came through the local forest service office and bought up 4,000 personal use transplant permits in one go. It's not like people don't know what's happening, but they just keep letting it happen.

Don’t get you what’s the permit for

 

[Frozentreehugger]

What's the deal with ChokeCherry Lumber?

It smells... different than other wood when I cut it.

I cut mine down in winter with frozen hands so did not notice the smell trying to load pics of the one I chopped and the mystery seed tree but both load about 75 percent and just quit . Don’t know why

 

[ShadyStump]

Don’t get you what’s the permit for

The forest service sells permits to collect and transplant trees for personal use, like your landscaping, or yamadori, from national forest lands.

A couple months ago, as I hear it from the forest ranger at the office, a guy came through and bought 4k of them. That's at $10 each. My guess is there will be about 4k more mature aspen, spruce and fir available in garden centers across America than were grown in one company's nurseries.

They say never trust a big city cop. Well never trust a small town forest ranger either.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

One would think or at least hope . That you don’t give that many permits to a single person without asking a few more questions . Other than thanks here’s your permits thanks for the money . So national forest land =to Crown land in Canada correct . Crown land belongs to the people of Canada and is overseen by the federal government it is not protected land With a camping permit you can camp and collect firewood . Build a makeshift structure to protect from the elements . Some people dig trees but it’s a grey area firewood yes . But you can’t dig a protected species . And can’t purchase a collector permit ie so much per tree . Like 4K worth . Forestry companies pay a stump fee . After getting a licence for a area

 

[ShadyStump]

One would think or at least hope . That you don’t give that many permits to a single person without asking a few more questions . Other than thanks here’s your permits thanks for the money . So national forest land =to Crown land in Canada correct . Crown land belongs to the people of Canada and is overseen by the federal government it is not protected land With a camping permit you can camp and collect firewood . Build a makeshift structure to protect from the elements . Some people dig trees but it’s a grey area firewood yes . But you can’t dig a protected species . And can’t purchase a collector permit ie so much per tree . Like 4K worth . Forestry companies pay a stump fee . After getting a licence for a area

Ah, I forgot Canada. Sorry.
Yes, public lands supposedly belonging to the American people. In the states there are different designations of land administered by different agencies of the federal government, but they're all supposed to be for the people.
The National Forests are administered by the Department of Agriculture. A logging company, or even a nursery can apply for permits to go cut or dig up trees, but it's a years long process that companies don't like to go through. A private individual, however, is allowed to walk into the local office and pay cash for a personal permit for a couple trees, or cord of firewood, or what not no questions asked.
So to get around this, companies will write a check to an executive who then goes to a forest service office and uses those funds to buy as many of these personal use permits as possible, then hires people to go out and dig the trees for him. He then sells the trees back to the company he works for for the $10 a piece he paid for the permits, and the company sells the mature trees in garden centers for $50+ a piece.
And the likes of me have no way to legally collect yamadori in spring because the forest service only issues so many permits a season.

The rangers know exactly what's going on, and they have the ability to deny the sale, but they've often been buttered up by the company, or just don't give a damn. It's a known thing, and it's come up in Congress, but everyone in DC is happy their corporate cronies have a work around.