Further development of JM

[raffaelbaer]

Hey Everybody,

I've got this maple:



It's an Orange Dream, I want to grow out to a large tree somewhat like this:



My three main questions where:

How do I get a trunk this size, without letting the tree have to grow 3-4 meters tall (like japanese maples that stand in gardens), can I constantly shorten it when it gets to high, and have the benefit of more lower branches developing...

also at what stage would I worry about developing a fine ramification like on the first reference tree (Walter Pall's maple)? Do I just let my branches grow out until the trunk has my desired thickness (also slighlty wire them, as of later it would be harder) and the worry about growing the branches and starting to ramify them

lastly, do you guys think for this maple I've got, it is necesarry to develop new leaders eg. cut the tree to 1/3 of the final height to develop better taper by iterativ pruning, of the main leaders once they reached suffiecient thickness, or is the current structure okay for it?

Thanks in advance for any tips and help! PS: how long do you think the thickening of the trunk would take from current stage, I was thinking somethink like 7ish years

What would you do if the tree was yours and you wanted to bring it to a level of my reference trees?

Cheers
Raffael

 

[Dav4]

Well, you've got to let the tree grow vigorously then chop back every few years, do meaningful root work, all the while wiring movement into the trunk segments for movement. The fastest way to achieve that will be in the ground, and it would still be a 10-15 year project to develop the trunk size, and then you'd need to build the canopy. You can probably double that time if the tree is always confined in a pot. Fwiw, there are lots of resources here on how to grow out young maple stock.

 

[raffaelbaer]

Well, you've got to let the tree grow vigorously then chop back every few years, do meaningful root work, all the while wiring movement into the trunk segments for movement. The fastest way to achieve that will be in the ground, and it would still be a 10-15 year project to develop the trunk size, and then you'd need to build the canopy. You can probably double that time if the tree is always confined in a pot. Fwiw, there are lots of resources here on how to grow out young maple stock.

Great thanks, very straighforward, could you maybe link me too a few of the resources, that you meant!

 

[dbonsaiw]

Lots of foliage/photosynthesis and branch extension is what fuels trunk (and branch) thickening. It’s a relatively slow process as is, but with pruning the process is slowed down that much more. If we have a seedling and want a 3” thick trunk, the fastest way to this goal is to allow the tree to grow free for years. By pruning it back hard when it’s close to the desired thickness, we can start a new leader and achieve whatever taper and movement we want. The price we pay for this relative “speed” is large wounds that lead to large scars that may take a long time to disappear (if ever).

Alternatively, one can use a cut and grow method where the tree grows for a season and is cut back a little higher than it was at the beginning of the season. Rinse lather repeat year after year. The yearly pruning will slow the thickening process but will give us smaller wounds and more natural movement.

Perhaps you like the shape of your trunk as is (maybe a bit overly attached if we are dealing with a young seedling), one could use sacrifice branches to obtain thickness and taper.

In the end, we will need to grow and prune. The question really becomes how we want to balance the growth and pruning cycles in light of our goals and timeline. There are no shortcuts to development other than starting with a more developed tree.

 

[BrianBay9]

Great thanks, very straighforward, could you maybe link me too a few of the resources, that you meant!

Growing Large Trunks for Bonsai

 

[Dav4]

Great thanks, very straighforward, could you maybe link me too a few of the resources, that you meant!

Ebihara maples

Over the years Jonas Dupuich has written some very nice articles about some of Mr. Ebihara's techniques in growing Japanese maple. Here's one example. http://bonsaitonight.com/2009/02/14/ebihara/ Jonas talked about a number of grafting techniques and how Ebihara developed these beautiful...

www.bonsainut.com

Also, just type "Ebihara" into the search tool in the upper right hand corner and you'll get many threads on the subject to read.

 

[SeanS]

How do I get a trunk this size, without letting the tree have to grow 3-4 meters tall (like japanese maples that stand in gardens), can I constantly shorten it when it gets to high, and have the benefit of more lower branches developing...

Only way to get a thick trunk is to let the tree grow tall and vigorously. That’s how trees thicken

 

[Shibui]

Only way to get a thick trunk is to let the tree grow tall and vigorously. That’s how trees thicken

Granted that growth begets thickening but I now prefer several tall trunks rather than one single trunk. Still get the same amount of growth but shared between several thinner trunks that may not be as tall as a single sacrifice trunk. Means smaller scars after reduction. Also means more options for bends in the final trunk and much more uniform taper.

all the while wiring movement into the trunk segments for movement.

I've found wiring for movement while ground growing is a problem. Thickening happens so fast the wires are swallowed before I can remove them. Maybe with just one or 2 trees or if climate made growth slower it could be OK. Pruning gives changes in direction that usually make good bends in deciduous trunks.

Thanks in advance for any tips and help! PS: how long do you think the thickening of the trunk would take from current stage, I was thinking somethink like 7ish years

Timelines vary according to local conditions, care and nutrition as well as species and maybe even cultivar as well as how thick you are aiming for. It's not possible to predict how long it will take to thicken any particular trunk.
Also be aware that not all trees that are started end up as show winning bonsai. About 10% of the trees I start end up on the burn pile because they develop insurmountable problems or would take far too long to rectify. Only about 10% of trees started make good bonsai. Even less turn out as high quality.

 

[MHBonsai]

Also these are some great examples of folks doing what you are shooting for here in progression threads.

Article - Progression threads

Big kudos to @MHBonsai for putting this together!!! For the past several years I've been compiling progressions that have been helpful to me. Typically I'm looking for good photo documentation of bonsai transformations, with descriptions of...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[raffaelbaer]

Also these are some great examples of folks doing what you are shooting for here in progression threads.

Article - Progression threads

Big kudos to @MHBonsai for putting this together!!! For the past several years I've been compiling progressions that have been helpful to me. Typically I'm looking for good photo documentation of bonsai transformations, with descriptions of...

www.bonsainut.com

Thanks a lot, been grinding trough the threads the last 2 hours, quite interesting, what people have archived in only 5-7 years... especially the trunk of this maple:

Acer palmatum beni tsukasa (from cutting)

I bought this palmatum in a nursery 3 years ago. here is the tree in november 2017-> In april 2018, i repot it in a large and flat woodbox + i cut the crown -> The Young leaves of the beni tsukasa cultivar -> In june of 2018 the summer growth starts -> August 2018 -> November 2018 ->...

www.bonsainut.com