From bonsai pot back to organic soil?

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

Hi all, weird question perhaps. My oldest tree is an Engelmann Spruce yamadori I got from Nature's Way that is about 150 yo. I have a somewhat unique situation where I'm sort of planning on growing out my current trees/stock in organic soil and cans until I retire in about 7.5 years and can be sure I can dedicate everything to them, and also have a nice selection but to choose from and work on. This in no way means I won't continue to collect stock, wire it, etc., based on future styling plans or ideas, but no crazy reduction, etc.

Would it be a homicidal situation to move a potted bonsai back to an organic-ish soil that is more of a 50/50 split of soil, pumice and perhaps akadama? I'd really love for this tree to have an opportunity to grow larger and put on some dense foliage if at all possible.

Thanks!

 

[TrevorLarsen]

I don’t have any experience doing what you are asking, but I know Peter Chan uses a mix similar to what you are describing for all of his trees. Hopefully this is useful.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

My question is... why not just keep it in regular bonsai soil? I dont understand what moving it to an organic mix is going to offer you?

 

[Shibui]

In answer to the original question, your tree does not care what soil it is in. All it really cares about is whether the roots are too wet or too dry. There's no problem changing soil type provided you also adjust care to match that soil.

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

My question is... why not just keep it in regular bonsai soil? I dont understand what moving it to an organic mix is going to offer you?

I was just thinking maybe a little forgiveness in terms of watering frequency when and if I deploy and my wife is watering. I could also set up a sprinkler system like nurseries have a well I suppose..

 

[99 Mile Creek]

I was just thinking maybe a little forgiveness in terms of watering frequency when and if I deploy and my wife is watering. I could also set up a sprinkler system like nurseries have a well I suppose..

I second the watering system. I was in the same boat, trying to find a balance between a mild, water-retaining substrate vs a better, well-draining substrate that dries out fast.

Instead, I kept the substrate I knew worked and found a reliable automated watering system (I went with the system that mists and can be adjusted into a jet spray -- adjusting it right in the middle so not to disturb substrate but with enough pressure to reach the trees). It's an investment easily justifiable and one that can give peace of mind if I'm away or too busy. I have to remind myself not to become entirely reliant upon it and to water manually to give the trees some individual attention on the days I know I'll be home.

I can only trust myself with my particularities and regimens for my bonsai -- not my wife or anyone else. Though, it's pretty easy to ask her if the water system kicked on for the day, or to turn it off for rain from time to time. I can even ask the neighbors for that and not feel like I'm putting them out.

 

[bwaynef]

I have very little experience with Spruce, but my experience tells me they don't like having their roots messed with.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I was just thinking maybe a little forgiveness in terms of watering frequency when and if I deploy and my wife is watering. I could also set up a sprinkler system like nurseries have a well I suppose..

I think you need to set up the sprinkler system. They have quite a few now that include WiFi controllers that you can turn on and off remotely, and if you combine it with a streaming web cam of your yard, you can turn your water on and off from Iraq, if you so desired.

Changing a soil mix so that it stays wetter longer is usually a bad idea. I used to water my trees twice daily in SoCal during the summer - and sometimes three times if the Santa Ana's were blowing. I never had a problem with root rot... but I did lose one or two trees when the landscapers accidentally shifted a sprinkler head or two. But it was the only thing that allowed me to be able to go on two week vacations without stressing about my trees. In 2022 I went to Europe for two weeks and had my entire garden/nursery under sprinklers.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

I think you need to set up the sprinkler system. They have quite a few now that include WiFi controllers that you can turn on and off remotely, and if you combine it with a streaming web cam of your yard, you can turn your water on and off from Iraq, if you so desired.

Changing a soil mix so that it stays wetter longer is usually a bad idea. I used to water my trees twice daily in SoCal during the summer - and sometimes three times if the Santa Ana's were blowing. I never had a problem with root rot... but I did lose one or two trees when the landscapers accidentally shifted a sprinkler head or two. But it was the only thing that allowed me to be able to go on two week vacations without stressing about my trees. In 2022 I went to Europe for two weeks and had my entire garden/nursery under sprinklers.

Pairing with a camera to ensure it’s working is a great idea. Definitely doing this.

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

I think you need to set up the sprinkler system. They have quite a few now that include WiFi controllers that you can turn on and off remotely, and if you combine it with a streaming web cam of your yard, you can turn your water on and off from Iraq, if you so desired.

Changing a soil mix so that it stays wetter longer is usually a bad idea. I used to water my trees twice daily in SoCal during the summer - and sometimes three times if the Santa Ana's were blowing. I never had a problem with root rot... but I did lose one or two trees when the landscapers accidentally shifted a sprinkler head or two. But it was the only thing that allowed me to be able to go on two week vacations without stressing about my trees. In 2022 I went to Europe for two weeks and had my entire garden/nursery under sprinklers.

I think you need to set up the sprinkler system. They have quite a few now that include WiFi controllers that you can turn on and off remotely, and if you combine it with a streaming web cam of your yard, you can turn your water on and off from Iraq, if you so desired.

Changing a soil mix so that it stays wetter longer is usually a bad idea. I used to water my trees twice daily in SoCal during the summer - and sometimes three times if the Santa Ana's were blowing. I never had a problem with root rot... but I did lose one or two trees when the landscapers accidentally shifted a sprinkler head or two. But it was the only thing that allowed me to be able to go on two week vacations without stressing about my trees. In 2022 I went to Europe for two weeks and had my entire garden/nursery under sprinklers.

Sounds like the most logical idea for sure, thank you. When I was stationed in San Diego, my cacti did just fine, but I imagine bonsai would be a whole 'nother level!

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

I second the watering system. I was in the same boat, trying to find a balance between a mild, water-retaining substrate vs a better, well-draining substrate that dries out fast.

Instead, I kept the substrate I knew worked and found a reliable automated watering system (I went with the system that mists and can be adjusted into a jet spray -- adjusting it right in the middle so not to disturb substrate but with enough pressure to reach the trees). It's an investment easily justifiable and one that can give peace of mind if I'm away or too busy. I have to remind myself not to become entirely reliant upon it and to water manually to give the trees some individual attention on the days I know I'll be home.

I can only trust myself with my particularities and regimens for my bonsai -- not my wife or anyone else. Though, it's pretty easy to ask her if the water system kicked on for the day, or to turn it off for rain from time to time. I can even ask the neighbors for that and not feel like I'm putting them out.

%

 

[PowerTap]

I was just thinking maybe a little forgiveness in terms of watering frequency when and if I deploy and my wife is watering. I could also set up a sprinkler system like nurseries have a well I suppose..

How long of a deployment are you trying to prepare for? Weeks, months, a year? I'm guessing this is a military deployment.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I vote for 60-70 % organics in a bigger pot to start and just a simple up-pot when the roots fill the current one. Some people recoil in horror at the thought that the roots will have to be cut back to fit in a proper bonsai pot in the future. I think of it as a much less intrusive operation than when collecting a yamadori. Think of finding this future tree in the wild with branches in all the right places and a compact root ball. Eureka!

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

How long of a deployment are you trying to prepare for? Weeks, months, a year? I'm guessing this is a military deployment.

7-8 months, maybe...no specific date, but at least two years away!

 

[Cajunrider]

I would move the trees that are in bonsai pot into grow boxes or Anderson flat and increase the organic content in the soil. Then I would adjust my watering schedule carefully until I have established a watering regimen that keeps the trees healthy. I would also establish an automatic watering system then adjust the timing until you know what changes you need for the seasons. Get your mate involved so she knows how to adjust. You don't want to dump all that on your mate a week from your deployment.

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

I vote for 60-70 % organics in a bigger pot to start and just a simple up-pot when the roots fill the current one. Some people recoil in horror at the thought that the roots will have to be cut back to fit in a proper bonsai pot in the future. I think of it as a much less intrusive operation than when collecting a yamadori. Think of finding this future tree in the wild with branches in all the right places and a compact root ball. Eureka!

For sure, thank you!

I would move the trees that are in bonsai pot into grow boxes or Anderson flat and increase the organic content in the soil. Then I would adjust my watering schedule carefully until I have established a watering regimen that keeps the trees healthy. I would also establish an automatic watering system then adjust the timing until you know what changes you need for the seasons. Get your mate involved so she knows how to adjust. You don't want to dump all that on your mate a week from your deployment.

Absolutely, I have a great deal of time to prepare and the boxes seem like a great plan. How soon do they begin to lose strength due to rot, if ever?

 

[Cajunrider]

For sure, thank you!

Absolutely, I have a great deal of time to prepare and the boxes seem like a great plan. How soon do they begin to lose strength due to rot, if ever?

The boxes I have all lasted more than 3 years. The Anderson flats last a whole lot longer.

 

[JudyB]

if its a one time 7-8 months, I'd vote for leaving in the current situation and working out a good watering system. If it may happen over winter, then it will be more difficult than summer. There are also places that do tree boarding during winter so that may be an option.

 

[PowerTap]

Also worth considering if there is a nursery or bonsai friend that would foster them in your absence.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Did you say that ground growing is not available?