First styling ever, Scots pine

[Sthlmbonsai]

Hey,
wanted to share my first styling ever. Would love to hear some feedback on this Scots pine yamadori that I had a go at. There are certainly things I’m aiming to improve once ramification gets better.
Twin trunk sure makes things tricky but I think I might be off to an ok start?
Pictures are before and after.

 

[0soyoung]

Nice work!!

It looks to be 2D, though. It will be much more interesting, especially in person, if there are some (bigger) things in front and (thinner) things in back. Regardless, I wish my first attempt had been this good.

 

[Velodog2]

Agreed for a first styling it’s pretty good! You certainly had excellent material to start with, and no offense intended, but probably not beginner material. Regardless, the critique I would offer is that there appeared to be some nice directionality in the original material that was lost in the final design.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Very nice job for first attempt. You have done a great job of compacting the design and inducing movement, however some of the big bends are looking a little artificial, like 'C' and 'S' shapes. All is not lost however as when you tweak the design in the future you can address these to try and make more natural. One thing to keep in mind is that you can also compact the design by trimming back to buds that are further down and closer to the trunk. And you don't need to cut back to them now, but sometimes a future leader can be identified and wired into place leaving the rest of the branch as a sacrifice to be trimmed off later.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Nice work!!

It looks to be 2D, though. It will be much more interesting, especially in person, if there are some (bigger) things in front and (thinner) things in back. Regardless, I wish my first attempt had been this good.

Thanks, I know. I didn’t realize how hard it is to capture bonsai material but it totally looks 2D. Of course that has to do with beginners mistakes styling wise, but it does look a lot better in person.

Nice work!!

It looks to be 2D, though. It will be much more interesting, especially in person, if there are some (bigger) things in front and (thinner) things in back. Regardless, I wish my first attempt had been this good.

Thanks, I know. I didn’t realize how hard it is to capture bonsai material but it totally looks 2D. Of course that has to do with beginners mistakes styling wise, but it does look a lot better in person.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Agreed for a first styling it’s pretty good! You certainly had excellent material to start with, and no offense intended, but probably not beginner material. Regardless, the critique I would offer is that there appeared to be some nice directionality in the original material that was lost in the final design.

No offense taken. I’d love to hear what you saw in the material if you’d be willing to share?
I myself did not see this at first and honestly, the left trunk I wanted to cut but once I’d started on the main right trunk I saw that I could do something similar on the left side.
The left side had a lot of weaker and flimsier material but once I started wiring (first time for that too) I found a way to make it work. Then I was trying to make the tree somewhat triangular which meant some of my other ideas with depth and different levels of “pads” had to go. This will have to do for now and hopefully the tree recovers from the work done and I can keep developing.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Very nice job for first attempt. You have done a great job of compacting the design and inducing movement, however some of the big bends are looking a little artificial, like 'C' and 'S' shapes. All is not lost however as when you tweak the design in the future you can address these to try and make more natural. One thing to keep in mind is that you can also compact the design by trimming back to buds that are further down and closer to the trunk. And you don't need to cut back to them now, but sometimes a future leader can be identified and wired into place leaving the rest of the branch as a sacrifice to be trimmed off later.

Thank you. Yes, I agree, hate the S and C. Tried to get rid of these but again, focused on the triangular movement and ended up here. Aim to compact more in the next styling. I will def have these remarks in mind.

 

[Adair M]

It can take several years to go from wild yamadori to styled bonsai.

It seems we expect to create finished looking trees in one styling session. I think the “demonstration” performed by the Masters on stage have given us a false impression of how to create bonsai. Oh, the demos are impressive, but what we don’t see is afterwards the trees drop branches or die due to overwork. And styling with the wild curves is appropriate for yamadori junipers, pines usually dont grow like that.

Instead, I suggest that the major trunks get set, and the major branches, then wait for the tree to backbud. Wiring should expose sections of the tree to the sun, and when it does, you’ll get backbudding. Trying to achieve a refined Silohette isn’t important at this stage. Structure is.

All that said, if this is your first attempt at wiring, that’s very impressive. I can see a few problem areas, but you’ll learn how to sort that out with practice.

Over the winter, you should see a lot of backbuds appear. They’re very delicate, and they will be the future of your tree. Especially those closest to the trunks.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Also, I’ve looked around for post styling care and not really found much. What do you advice for the next couple of month of care? Watering as normal, shade preferably..? Anything else I should keep in mind?

Oh, and how long do you guys keep the wire on Scots pines?

 

[Adair M]

Well... generally with pines, wiring and styling is best done in the fall. But since it’s done, leave it alone. Water and fertilize as normal. Pines like full sun.

How long to keep wire on?

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

It can take several years to go from wild yamadori to styled bonsai.

It seems we expect to create finished looking trees in one styling session. I think the “demonstration” performed by the Masters on stage have given us a false impression of how to create bonsai. Oh, the demos are impressive, but what we don’t see is afterwards the trees drop branches or die due to overwork. And styling with the wild curves is appropriate for yamadori junipers, pines usually dont grow like that.

Instead, I suggest that the major trunks get set, and the major branches, then wait for the tree to backbud. Wiring should expose sections of the tree to the sun, and when it does, you’ll get backbudding. Trying to achieve a refined Silohette isn’t important at this stage. Structure is.

All that said, if this is your first attempt at wiring, that’s very impressive. I can see a few problem areas, but you’ll learn how to sort that out with practice.

Over the winter, you should see a lot of backbuds appear. They’re very delicate, and they will be the future of your tree. Especially those closest to the trunks.

I agree with this as well. Even though I’ve not styled a tree before I have read and seen most of the online material available. I’m well aware that the masters do quick and overworked tree work in live events and I think all bonsai enthusiasts suffer from taking too much actions. I see the problem with this.
I understand that bonsai takes time, I do not expect to see this tree as bonsai in a few years. As far as doing too much work on the first styling, I don’t know that I have but time will tell. Silhouette is not super important but I had to find some kind of angle to where the styling was done.. otherwise I’d keep going forever. I don’t believe I’ve not done any crazy spectacular bends even though I’m sure what I’ve done so far take will have a big effect on the tree. I’m sure there will be many lessons learned along the way.
Thanks again for pointing out both problems as well as things I’ve done right.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Well... generally with pines, wiring and styling is best done in the fall. But since it’s done, leave it alone. Water and fertilize as normal. Pines like full sun.

How long to keep wire on?

Perfect, thanks a lot!

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

It's got a lot off turns, spaghetti tree. It can be a nice 2 trunk. Adair say it all..

 

[Adair M]

I agree with this as well. Even though I’ve not styled a tree before I have read and seen most of the online material available. I’m well aware that the masters do quick and overworked tree work in live events and I think all bonsai enthusiasts suffer from taking too much actions. I see the problem with this.
I understand that bonsai takes time, I do not expect to see this tree as bonsai in a few years. As far as doing too much work on the first styling, I don’t know that I have but time will tell. Silhouette is not super important but I had to find some kind of angle to where the styling was done.. otherwise I’d keep going forever. I don’t believe I’ve not done any crazy spectacular bends even though I’m sure what I’ve done so far take will have a big effect on the tree. I’m sure there will be many lessons learned along the way.
Thanks again for pointing out both problems as well as things I’ve done right.

Well, there’s the issue of wanting it “to look good” too soon. In your case, your treehas a lot of long internodes. Too long to use, really. And you used the technique of putting lots of curves in them which visually “shortens” them.

You can do this with a couple branches and it works ok. But when the whole tree is done that way it looks like a bowl of spaghetti!

The other approach is to not care what the final image looks like, just set the key branches in place how you would want them, and nevemind where the foliage is right now. Hopefully, the tree will backbud closer to the trunk. And after it does and the new growth is strong enough, just cut the leggy stuff off!

If you don’t get backbudding where you want it, use the leggy buds as grafting scions to graft back on closer to the trunk.

I have trees “under development” that are complete and utter messes!

Good luck with your tree!

 

[River's Edge]

Hey,
wanted to share my first styling ever. Would love to hear some feedback on this Scots pine yamadori that I had a go at. There are certainly things I’m aiming to improve once ramification gets better.
Twin trunk sure makes things tricky but I think I might be off to an ok start?
Pictures are before and after.

You will enjoy working with a " Jack " it is wonderful tool for Yamadori coupled with learning to use bending bars and pressure points. Movement that has different degree of directional change, distance between change is easier and safer to do with the above tools once you get the hang of them. I suggest this because you are working with Yamadori rather than younger nursery material. here is a picture of a jack being used to reposition trunks on Yamadori.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Well, there’s the issue of wanting it “to look good” too soon. In your case, your treehas a lot of long internodes. Too long to use, really. And you used the technique of putting lots of curves in them which visually “shortens” them.

You can do this with a couple branches and it works ok. But when the whole tree is done that way it looks like a bowl of spaghetti!

The other approach is to not care what the final image looks like, just set the key branches in place how you would want them, and nevemind where the foliage is right now. Hopefully, the tree will backbud closer to the trunk. And after it does and the new growth is strong enough, just cut the leggy stuff off!

If you don’t get backbudding where you want it, use the leggy buds as grafting scions to graft back on closer to the trunk.

I have trees “under development” that are complete and utter messes!

Good luck with your tree!

Good point here. I was probably a bit eager to get going yes. Internodes are a bit shorter on the right side but there’s indeed a lot of curves all over the tree. The left was longer internodes to a point I wasn’t sure it was at a state of styling, probably not.
I’ll hope for backbudding. This year the tree exploded with new growth so hopefully O haven’t killed the mojo of growth with my styling. Again thanks for taking the time to write. Now I’m aware and can keep working on this tree and think I have an idea how develop it in the future.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

You will enjoy working with a " Jack " it is wonderful tool for Yamadori coupled with learning to use bending bars and pressure points. Movement that has different degree of directional change, distance between change is easier and safer to do with the above tools once you get the hang of them. I suggest this because you are working with Yamadori rather than younger nursery material. here is a picture of a jack being used to reposition trunks on Yamadori.

Great tool for this indeed! Cheers

 

[River's Edge]

Also, I’ve looked around for post styling care and not really found much. What do you advice for the next couple of month of care? Watering as normal, shade preferably..? Anything else I should keep in mind?

Oh, and how long do you guys keep the wire on Scots pines?

Yamadori are a bit different with the wiring, it tends to need to stay on longer for the position to set. Younger material sets quicker. On some i have left the wire on for up to two years as long as it was not damaging the bark too much. Heavier bends being held in place with guy wires require checking frequently for cutting in but can stay on even longer before they hold in the new position. It is amazing the tension on those guy wires. Start collecting a selection of rubber hose sizes and rubber pads for bufferring the wire at contact points. The most useful material i have found is some of the automotive tubing and old bicycle tubes for wrapping and protecting the bark before wiring.

 

[Sthlmbonsai]

Very interesting and important info on the Yamadori wiring here. I’ll keep an eye on the wires to not remove em too early OR to soon.

I’ve heard these things about “guy wire” before but have had a problem to finding guy wire in Sweden. Probably looked in the wrong places, what is this wire used for.. other than bonsai? The material I've looked at is too thick.

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Very interesting and important info on the Yamadori wiring here. I’ll keep an eye on the wires to not remove em too early OR to soon.

I’ve heard these things about “guy wire” before but have had a problem to finding guy wire in Sweden. Probably looked in the wrong places, what is this wire used for.. other than bonsai? The material I've looked at is too thick.

Guy wires are the same stuff as your regular wire, except for you put it on in a different way. just make sure you get yourself non-stretching wire, like copper or steel. Aluminium stretches when pressured.

Pretty good styling for a first time! If you have time and cash to spare this summer definitely take a look at the Scandinavian Bonsai Retreat!