First indoor setup! tips and tricks wanted!

I might lay these down on the trays so I'm not looking at black rubber.

 
I might lay these down on the trays so I'm not looking at black rubber.

Hopefully they're not "scented." To attract the intended use lol.
 
The best advice I can personally give for indoor growing is to try to visit every plant every day if you can. If you can't (and who can) do your best. Sometimes problems can pop up in the plant there in the back that is seldom seen and the problem can spread. Also, don't use granular organic fertilizers in these growing conditions or you will end up with fungus growing in and on your soil. For inside growing I much prefer liquids.

In my experience you can expect to get more pests inside, no matter what you do. It's amazing how much getting them outside in summer helps with the pest control - natural predators outside. A fan helps, and I'd recommend running it 24-7. You can add some systemic pesticide to each pot to keep scale, aphids, etc away longer. Plan on giving them all a good shower (actually in your shower) with hand inspection and leaf washing, a couple of times during the winter.

so i've really been trying to take all of the great advice to heart, and it's been an immense help. i don't yet have a systemic pesticide, but i've been trying to be vigilant. this last week i fought off what seemed to be an overnight aphid explosion on my spekboom cuttings. there were about six effected, but not next to each other inside; i think they were next to each other when they were outside. quarantined, sprayed, observed and cleansed. so after that skirmish with those imps, tonight i slayed a real dragon.

about a week ago i had noticed that some of my hibiscus seedlings (gifts in growing) had been chewed on, but it was minor and i was unsure if it was old damage from before i brought them in. but i noticed what seemed to be new some heavy chewing tonight. then i saw a little serissa cutting that sits next to them was full of holes and notches. the hibiscus are low on my list, but don't you mess with my serissas. found the little beast 🐛🐉. same color as new growth on my variegated serissas. caught in the act!

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Squish 'em, kill 'em dead, dead, dead.

Caterpillars. They can chew through a lot of leaves in short order.

i honestly agonized over finding a sacrificial tree for it, out of curiosity for what it might become ( i love insects)... for about two minutes. then i squished it.
 
too much of something to little of another? i know a lot has changed for these trees in the last few weeks: fans instead of wind, sprayer instead of watering can (narrow wand makes access easier), artificial light instead of natural light, temps stay closer to 65-70º, humidity stays 50-55%, liquid 2-8-4 fertilizer once a week instead of organic cakes.

water's the same that i used all summer, using humic/fulvic/seaweed mix once a month, and sticking to watering/fertilizing only the substrate and not foliar. serissas are still growing, budding, and flowering very well. schefflera still growing. the ficus is still growing and even putting out figs.

i know the spider farmers can be a bit intense but these trees are more on the perimeter and not in the center. ppfd says they should be in the 700-500 ppfd range as they sit. i still rotate daily. when these trees were outside, they only got direct light until about 12:30, then they were in dappled/shade. i know artificial light isn't as strong as natural light so i have the lighting on for 17 hrs/day. part of me wants to blame the lighting- the yellowing is mostly in apical (the higher foliage?) and younger growth. i think it was @cmeg1 who cautioned against carb locking? is that what this is possibly?

this looks like a deficiency to my untrained eye... i'm a bit lost for where to go. again, thank you all. you guys and gals are an incredible resource.

variegated serissa
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serissa flore pleno
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ficus microcarpa
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variegated dwarf schefflera
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General deficiency....hydro (rocky) media needs nutrient every watering....ph of 5.8-6.4
Two part(a&b) nutrient preferred....Add microbes so the biome can feed microbes that make available nutrient instead of leaves having to work all the time.
Add the Humic/fulvic acid and kelp every watering if no npk in it(powders).Humic acids are carbon to feed microbes.
If gets on leaves , rinse.Kelp will burn leaves if more than once a week on foliage...npk on leaves will too.
Check ppm of your water(tap,well,chlorine or chloramine???) with a tds meter. Excess mi eral in water is usually unusable and will clog plants.
Good well water does exist though!!!
This is all easily remidied....give me a shout out.
 
Stay weak on the light 18 hrs!!
400-600 par do not go over 600 unless you are using co2 generally
Make sure room has access to ambient levels of co2 by openind room door....house could be quite high though....not unheardoff to have 1000 ppm in a house!!😆😆😆
Plants will use co2 in a couple hours major concern in hreenhouse growing.they simply stop.
You have deficiencies though.easilt corrected in days if not hours for some.
 
What what you reed about fixing deficiencies though lots of wrong info....here is best bet
 
Deficiencies and fungus is realky only situations

Fungus will cause deficiencies...I have som fungus deterents of natural method........then alot plays in good water.
Good brix.
Fungus messesup root ph
 
@cmeg1 thank you!! i’m away from home at the moment but when i get home i’ll post with what i have available for supplements and get a ppm on my water
 
I am using a Optic 1 XL 100w dimmable COB LED. It is rather expensive, but clearly over-engineered. Especially compared to some of those LED panels out there. Some are just alu plates with LEDs on them. That could be very efficient in moles of photons per watt and PAR per money spend.

So mine has blue LEDs with a phosphor coating. Apparently, blue LEDs are the most efficient ones. And there is loss of efficiency because of the coating. But the phosphor coating makes it a white LED. And it has a really good contentious spectrum. Much more like daylight than CFL or HID. The Optic 1 is passively cooled with a large metal heat sink. And it has a lens that focuses the light of the LEDs in a 90 degree cone. So there is less need for mylar wall/tent.

The PPFD values are a bit on the low side if one was to grow cannabis plants. One would want over 700 µmol m-2 s-1 PPFD. And it would be able to provide that for just 1 plant. But as cmeg1 says, your normal plants would need much less PPFD. A DLI of 5 to 10 in winter outside is not uncommon. So if you have the lights on for 12 hours a day, 120 µmol m-2 s-1 PPFD would be enough to satisfy that. And that means that outside the brightness would be about 200 to 350 µmol m-2 s-1 PPFD.

I use my light to grow evergreen azaleas. There seems to be the suggestion that these plants could take 24 hour of light per day. I think most reported leaf burn from high light intensity is because of the heat buildup. Not of the photons intensity themselves. The leaves can heat up because the light itself is a heat source, because even LEDs are not 100% efficient. So the light warms up, and if the leaves get close, they warm up too. And the energy of the photons is observed by the leaves. Leaves try to convert that energy into chemical bonds. But photosynthesis is actually really inefficient, so heat is produced as a result. So as long as you stay below 400 PPFD, and the temperatures of the leaves stay low enough, long days should be fine leaf burn wise. The second question is if the plant can handle long days, or if it depends hormonally on a long dark period where it goes into the dark cycle/calvin cycle. If the plant has a circadian rhythm like us humans and going into the calvin cycle is hard-coded in, 24 hour days could stress it out. On top of that, it seems that there are non-photosynthetically related reasons for not having 24 hour cycles. One reason is that during the night, the plants provide sugars to the rhizosphere. And having the lights on 24/7 would starve the rhizosphere. And starving the rhizosphere would reduce its ability to take up minerals. You can also see in type lapses of plants that during the night, they whirl or dance around. And during the day, they follow the sun. And if you grow them inside, it takes them some time to adapt to the light cycle you have going. Only after a while, they will dance strongly during the dark period.

This is my simple setup:
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Since I have only cuttings and seedlings (and a random orchid we decided to not throw away but put there to see if it grows new flowers), I have some challenge with estimating the correct light intensity and to transition the humidity to lower values. The opaque bags also block light. Good ventilation and intermediate humidity inside may be tricky. As for a CO2 source, I have only seen that being mentioned for cannabis plants above 1000 PPFD. And right now, many people are buying CO2 meters now to measure if ventilation is enough for SARS Cov2. So one could use one for your plants as well. Do plants really drive CO2 down by a lot? If so, one trying to measure ventilation off CO2 in a room with a lot of house plants would get a very bad impression of actual ventilation rates.


I am actually thinking about setting up a camera myself to record time lapses. One would think it is not that expensive to set up?
 
I think most reported leaf burn from high light intensity is because of the heat buildup. Not of the photons intensity themselves. The leaves can heat up because the light itself is a heat source, because even LEDs are not 100% efficient. So the light warms up, and if the leaves get close, they warm up too. And the energy of the photons is observed by the leaves. Leaves try to convert that energy into chemical bonds. But photosynthesis is actually really inefficient, so heat is produced as a result. So as long as you stay below 400 PPFD, and the temperatures of the leaves stay low enough, long days should be fine leaf burn wise. The second question is if the plant can handle long days, or if it depends hormonally on a long dark period where it goes into the dark cycle/calvin cycle. If the plant has a circadian rhythm like us humans and going into the calvin cycle is hard-coded in, 24 hour days could stress it out. On top of that, it seems that there are non-photosynthetically related reasons for not having 24 hour cycles. One reason is that during the night, the plants provide sugars to the rhizosphere. And having the lights on 24/7 would starve the rhizosphere. And starving the rhizosphere would reduce its ability to take up minerals. You can also see in type lapses of plants that during the night, they whirl or dance around. And during the day, they follow the sun. And if you grow them inside, it takes them some time to adapt to the light cycle you have going. Only after a while, they will dance strongly during the dark period.

Some points of clarification:

There are three main modes of heat transfer. Conduction, convection and radiation. Conduction is the most efficient, then convection, then radiation.

In the example of heat transfer from light to plant...if the light housing heats up during use then:

Conduction can transfer heat if the plant is touching the housing. This one is pretty clear. Touch something hot, you get burned.

Convection can transfer heat by moving it from the light to the plant by the air molecules hitting the light, picking up energy from the warmer surface then carrying that energy to the leaf where the air molecules deposit that energy when they hit the leaf.

Radiation can come from two sources. The hot part of the light housing emits infrared photons. Those photons can radiate to the plant and deposit their energy into the leaf. IR photons aren't very efficient at driving photosynthesis and cannot otherwise be used by the leaf, so the leaf heats up because that energy has to go somewhere. ALSO, the photons from the light itself are a source of energy (heat) that radiates on the plant. Photosynthesis IS efficient at using red and blue photons so they get captured and turned into intermediate products. This reaction is endothermic. The energy from the photon gets bound up into the products of the reaction and do not heat up the leaf. However, chlorophyll is not 100% efficient. It's more like 25-30% efficient. 25% of the radiative heat goes into usable product. The rest...70% or so...is lost to heat buildup in the plant tissue. Actually, some fraction of that 70% is reflected or transmitted and leaves the leaf...but much of it does convert to heat inside the leaf itself.

Even if there were a perfect vacuum between the light source and the leaf...a perfect vaccuum is a perfect insulator to conduction and convection...the leaf would heat up because of radiation from the light itself. Hot air around the leaf prevents that heat from escaping out of the tissues. But even with cooler surrounding air, a bright enough light will burn plant tissues as the heat cannot leave fast enough.

As far as the Calvin cycle: it is NOT called the dark reaction because it happens at night. In fact, it can't run in the dark for very long at all! The Calvin cycle requires NADP to run. NADP is a short lived byproduct of photosynthesis. It cannot be stored until night. The Calvin cycle is called the "dark" reaction because, unlike photosynthesis, it does not require light to run. Photosynthesis is the "light" reaction because it requires light...the Calvin cycle does not require light making it the "dark" reaction. Scientists are too clever for their own good sometimes :(


What does occur during the dark is a lot of maintenance work. Chlorophyll that was burned up during the day needs to be regenerated. Converted sugars from the Calvin cycle need to be transported to useful places. The plant may need to regenerate other hormones and growth factors and may actually grow during the night. Basically, the light/dark reactions result in a warehouse full of goodies that need to be distributed and used and the factory itself needs some routine maintenance :)

The efficiencies of those processes help determine how much dark time the plant needs to catch up. A lot of these activities also happen during the day, but they are slower and sometimes the plant can't keep up. For example, if the light is too intense, the plant may burn up chlorophyll faster than it can regenerate it. The Calvin cycle can build up sugars much faster than they can cross membranes and diffuse to other parts of the plant. A few hours of darkness where nothing new is breaking can help the maintenance men catch up and clear off the shelves so new product can be produced.
 
Oh, you are right. The Calvin cycle is the reaction that creates carbohydrates out of CO2 with the ATP and NADH created by the first step of photosynthesis. Somehow, in my mind I confused it with a night time plant metabolism cycle where plants use oxygen to burn sugars. Pretty sure that I used to know that the 'dark cycle' tripped up people (probably before my exam I knew). I thought that had a fancier name than just 'cellular respiration'. So I 'reached' for 'Calvin cycle'. But that is a part of photosynthesis.
As for restoring chlorophyll and thylakoid maintenance, pretty sure that is an ongoing process. Does that really truly require a pause to catch up?

So far it seems quite difficult to figure out which species of plants can absolutely not deal with continuous eternal daylight and which ones can. And that it is hard to figure out exactly why. But so far it just seems easier to have 16 to 18 hour days as an absolute max. And if we are talking bonsai; definitely. But usually the talk about SD, LD, and ND species seems to be about the effect of daylight on blooming.

There are probably a lot of food crop species whose seedlings could benefit from 24 hour days over say 16 hour days. But careful with your bonsai!

As for plants dancing:

I am now seeing if I can buy something like a Brinno TLC200. I would like to use it outside as well during spring and capture my azaleas as their flower buds swell, and open. Inspired by:
 
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@cmeg1 here's what i've got: Foxfarm Tiger Blood 2-8-4 with nutrients ( magnesium, boron, copper, iron, manganese, zinc), Simple Grow Solutions Soil Hume ( 4% seaweed, 4.5% humic, 4% fulvic), and a PPM reading of 22. It's municipal water, so i let it sit in jugs for 24 hrs. before use to let it off gas chlorine. Is the next step a filter? (if i can get away with a simple tap-mounted filter for the basement i'd definitely prefer to keep it economical, probably won't have rain barrel setup until next spring). i also turned down the LED panels to 75%

should i be adding some of both to each watering? fert says 2-3 tsp/gal every other watering, hume says 6tbsp/gallon bi-weekly. i guess i'd need a little guidance for a ratio of each to add to my water. i.e. 3:1 tsp of fert to hume per gallon and adjust based on ph level.

regarding the water- maybe this is just a long time buildup? the trees seemed happy as clams all summer. i used organic cakes on them, and wasn't intense with fertilizer. the ficus and flore pleno were in a sand/loam mix, maybe the loam filtered the water more?

Foxfarm Tiger Bloom 2-8-4

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Simple Grow Solutions Soil Hume

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PPM
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@cmeg1 here's what i've got: Foxfarm Tiger Blood 2-8-4 with nutrients ( magnesium, boron, copper, iron, manganese, zinc), Simple Grow Solutions Soil Hume ( 4% seaweed, 4.5% humic, 4% fulvic), and a PPM reading of 22. It's municipal water, so i let it sit in jugs for 24 hrs. before use to let it off gas chlorine. Is the next step a filter? (if i can get away with a simple tap-mounted filter for the basement i'd definitely prefer to keep it economical, probably won't have rain barrel setup until next spring). i also turned down the LED panels to 75%

should i be adding some of both to each watering? fert says 2-3 tsp/gal every other watering, hume says 6tbsp/gallon bi-weekly. i guess i'd need a little guidance for a ratio of each to add to my water. i.e. 3:1 tsp of fert to hume per gallon and adjust based on ph level.

regarding the water- maybe this is just a long time buildup? the trees seemed happy as clams all summer. i used organic cakes on them, and wasn't intense with fertilizer. the ficus and flore pleno were in a sand/loam mix, maybe the loam filtered the water more?

Foxfarm Tiger Bloom 2-8-4

View attachment 333047View attachment 333048View attachment 333046

Simple Grow Solutions Soil Hume

View attachment 333043View attachment 333044View attachment 333045

PPM
View attachment 333042
Ppm of water is great.
Can get an ro filter for $100.I would google your municiple water report to make sure its just chlorine and not chloromine....chloromine is ammonia&chlorine and takes up to a mnth to dissipate.Your pom is good so just look at chlorine filters from hydrologic brand....make sure you get the one that removes chloramine also.kd85?
That way no chances.
That fert has no calcium...long and short? I think it sucks...lol
Fkn need calcium.✌️
Powders are my favorite...salts.Highly economical when buying bulk.
I had very good results with botanicare...pro grow,karma,calmag,fulvex.
Or just pro grow &karma...calmag
Definately ph your nutrient.1
 
Ppm of water is great.
Can get an ro filter for $100.I would google your municiple water report to make sure its just chlorine and not chloromine....chloromine is ammonia&chlorine and takes up to a mnth to dissipate.Your pom is good so just look at chlorine filters from hydrologic brand....make sure you get the one that removes chloramine also.kd85?
That way no chances.
That fert has no calcium...long and short? I think it sucks...lol
Fkn need calcium.✌
Powders are my favorite...salts.Highly economical when buying bulk.
I had very good results with botanicare...pro grow,karma,calmag,fulvex.
Or just pro grow &karma...calmag
Definately ph your nutrient.1

haha thanks for the feedback on the fert! i was just trying to be easy on the nitrogen and not try to encourage too much growth.

water report only lists chlorine, no chloromine- average of 0.7 ppm, 0.9 as of last test. calcium/magnesium hardness averages 16mg/L (is calmag still necessary?)

so if i get on the botanicare train, how do i go about mixing 1 gallon? each gives the basic 1 tsp/gal, so.. 1tsp calmag+ 1tsp of pure blend = 5-2-4 npk, then 1 tsp of fulvex, and 1 tsp of liquid karma. that's 4 tsp/gallon total, then adjust for ph? or do i adjust so that the total added is 1tsp/gal on the whole? i.e. .25 tsp of each per gallon.

sorry for going on and on, i know many people spend years getting things sorted and i'm trying to do it in a fraction of the time...
 
haha thanks for the feedback on the fert! i was just trying to be easy on the nitrogen and not try to encourage too much growth.

water report only lists chlorine, no chloromine- average of 0.7 ppm, 0.9 as of last test. calcium/magnesium hardness averages 16mg/L (is calmag still necessary?)

so if i get on the botanicare train, how do i go about mixing 1 gallon? each gives the basic 1 tsp/gal, so.. 1tsp calmag+ 1tsp of pure blend = 5-2-4 npk, then 1 tsp of fulvex, and 1 tsp of liquid karma. that's 4 tsp/gallon total, then adjust for ph? or do i adjust so that the total added is 1tsp/gal on the whole? i.e. .25 tsp of each per gallon.

sorry for going on and on, i know many people spend years getting things sorted and i'm trying to do it in a fraction of the time...
The calcium and mag in your tap is unusable...barely enough either......chlorine will dissapate,but probably takes longer than we think.It kills microbes too which are implrtant biome life to get root exudates changed into plant food to ease up workload on leaves and they can get a surplus for higher brix.
I don’t trust chlorine.....maybe get the chlorine filter and do botanicare........seee if any deficiency.If any deficiency perhaps consider the ro filter.
Will need an EC meter.
Mix npk first and test its strength then the organic bio stimulants(karma,fulvex) after.
That karma is awesome stuff.Has everything really...amino’s,humic and fulvic..
I would consider the chlorine filter from hydrologic.
Botanicare gives recipes,but ususally too strong..can half them to proper ec see the chart below..
These pages are from website botanicare.
Keep it simple........

yes calmag should be used.17 mg is only 17 ppm and you want way more calmag like 70-300ppm
Calcium is king!!!

I never go over 1.6EC IN VEG.
Maybe in autumn to harden a tree I go 1.8, but its rare....and only outside.
 

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