zero
Mame
Indeed, yeah I’ve got a lot to consider! Thank you
Elm - Ulmus Hollandica Jacqueline Hillier
- Thread starter zero
- Start date
zero
Mame
@leatherback You know I just realized there's a disease called *Dutch Elm Disease* and I'm starting to put together why you haven't ever seen any elms in the Netherlands!
leatherback
The Treedeemer
lol.
Interestingly enough.. appearently the largest number of mature elms left in Europe are in The Hague and Amsterdam, both in the Netherlands.
Interesting stuff on wikipedia on the disease; Never really looked into the details..
Dutch elm disease - Wikipedia
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
In some places, some old elms have resisted, probably because there weren't many around, like this one in Normandy :
krapooarboricole.wordpress.com
And I can see a lot of small ones in hedges along the river Loire, although many were felled because of the so-called "Dutch" disease.
Next to my former work place, a small street was planted about 10 years ago with what I think are Ulmus 'Sapporo Autumn Gold' that are supposed to be more resistant to the pests and disease. The leaves turn from green to yellow before brown and falling. They were already about 6 metres tall (20 feet) when planted, and the second year, they put pheromon traps before the start of the first branches.
Ulmus x hollandica 'Jacqueline Hillier' was found in the Hillier tree nursery near Birmingham (UK) in 1966. So if one of the parent is supposed to be Ulmus hollandica (from a province of the Netherlands), it's more a "Brummie Elm" than a "Dutch Elm"...
The one I have left from several cuttings (very easy) is just budding out. Like Seiju, it tends to have long, herring-bone like branches that need constant trimming. Root cuttings can't fail too.
L’orme de Martailly-lès-Brancion (Saône-et-Loire)
Au printemps, Alexis & Béber [1] nous avaient présenté deux arbres normands fantastiques [2][3], aujourd’hui suivons Alexis en Saône-et-Loire pour découvrir un trésor arboricole… &l…
krapooarboricole.wordpress.com
And I can see a lot of small ones in hedges along the river Loire, although many were felled because of the so-called "Dutch" disease.
Next to my former work place, a small street was planted about 10 years ago with what I think are Ulmus 'Sapporo Autumn Gold' that are supposed to be more resistant to the pests and disease. The leaves turn from green to yellow before brown and falling. They were already about 6 metres tall (20 feet) when planted, and the second year, they put pheromon traps before the start of the first branches.
Ulmus x hollandica 'Jacqueline Hillier' was found in the Hillier tree nursery near Birmingham (UK) in 1966. So if one of the parent is supposed to be Ulmus hollandica (from a province of the Netherlands), it's more a "Brummie Elm" than a "Dutch Elm"...
The one I have left from several cuttings (very easy) is just budding out. Like Seiju, it tends to have long, herring-bone like branches that need constant trimming. Root cuttings can't fail too.
zero
Mame
Thanks so much for sharing- I’m excited to get some more trees from this one I’m starting with! I may air layer some branches
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Why not ? I think 1/ and /2 could be removed, and maybe others.
But you can also try cuttings in late May, early June, the chance of having them take root is at least 50% I think. I tried with Ulmus parvifolia and had a success of 5 out of 5, my pinky wide (half an inch or so).
There is a thread, from someone from Spain, or Catalunya I think, about how to make elm cuttings of a rather large size. Or an internet link, can anyone remember ?
zero
Mame
Thank you so very much for the suggestions- I have to ponder the different possible limbs to get rid of, there are so many options I sort of get lost in the possibilities a bit so your detailed suggestions honestly really help provide some perspective that I’m grateful for. One and two are your first and second choices I imagine with the others being some potential places to cut at then?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
@zero Welcome to the site! Sorry I am late to this thread... In the words of Gandalf "I was delayed" 
The interesting thing about your cultivar is that in fact, no one really knows what it is. It comes from the Hillier nurseries (in UK), and was named after Jacqueline Hillier, who collected it from a private garden with unknown provenance. No one knows where it came from, and no one knows its species. In the trade, it is listed as Ulmus X "Jacqueline Hillier" or some version thereof... such as Ulmus X hollandica "Jacqueline Hillier" (as an unknown hybrid of U. hollandica and an unknown species). Despite its questionable history, it is very popular in landscape, to such an extent that it may ultimately become its own species
As far as your tree is concerned, you have to look at it with the future in mind. Right now it has good bones... if you wanted a bonsai that is 12" tall. However if you want it to grow larger and increase the caliper, you have to decide how you want to guide that growth. If you want a 12" (tall) tree, you would have one plan. If you want a 12" (wide) tree, you would have a very different plan.
Some of it has to do with the tree species... and what would look best for the tree. An American elm that is 12" tall? Perhaps not so good. A Chinese elm - Seiju or other dwarf - as a 12" tall? Easy. Jacqueline Hillier is unique on many levels, but I consider it a smaller elm with smaller leaves on average. So you have to think like a tree artist - and with the the species as your pallet... what can you do to maximize its beauty?
[EDIT] Wait. What? Apologies, but for whatever reason I read this thread the first time, and perhaps (due to skimming) I mistakenly thought we were talking about Hillier elms instead of Dutch elms. They are closely related... but not the same. Sorry about the distraction, but my comments about styling for future growth are still applicable, IMHO [/EDIT]
The interesting thing about your cultivar is that in fact, no one really knows what it is. It comes from the Hillier nurseries (in UK), and was named after Jacqueline Hillier, who collected it from a private garden with unknown provenance. No one knows where it came from, and no one knows its species. In the trade, it is listed as Ulmus X "Jacqueline Hillier" or some version thereof... such as Ulmus X hollandica "Jacqueline Hillier" (as an unknown hybrid of U. hollandica and an unknown species). Despite its questionable history, it is very popular in landscape, to such an extent that it may ultimately become its own species
As far as your tree is concerned, you have to look at it with the future in mind. Right now it has good bones... if you wanted a bonsai that is 12" tall. However if you want it to grow larger and increase the caliper, you have to decide how you want to guide that growth. If you want a 12" (tall) tree, you would have one plan. If you want a 12" (wide) tree, you would have a very different plan.
Some of it has to do with the tree species... and what would look best for the tree. An American elm that is 12" tall? Perhaps not so good. A Chinese elm - Seiju or other dwarf - as a 12" tall? Easy. Jacqueline Hillier is unique on many levels, but I consider it a smaller elm with smaller leaves on average. So you have to think like a tree artist - and with the the species as your pallet... what can you do to maximize its beauty?
[EDIT] Wait. What? Apologies, but for whatever reason I read this thread the first time, and perhaps (due to skimming) I mistakenly thought we were talking about Hillier elms instead of Dutch elms. They are closely related... but not the same. Sorry about the distraction, but my comments about styling for future growth are still applicable, IMHO [/EDIT]
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zero
Mame
Thank you so much for you reply @Bonsai Nut this is in fact the Ulmus X Hollandica Jacqueline Hillier and as of now I am looking at it with all sorts of potential- but I very much appreciate your perspective shared about it maybe looking better as a bit larger of a tree. I think it should be closer to 24-36 inches and have the look of an older elm with wide low branches and a beautiful southern tree in a field for children to climb on. At least that’s where my minds eye leads me. I have yet to see the extent of the size of the leaves, but I believe that will help to bring more of the direction to light as I am able to really access the full scope of the trees look in person from the different seasons. If I’m correct, if it had a 36 inch height the trunk would hopefully be between 3 and 4 inches in width?@zero Welcome to the site! Sorry I am late to this thread... In the words of Gandalf "I was delayed"
The interesting thing about your cultivar is that in fact, no one really knows what it is. It comes from the Hillier nurseries (in UK), and was named after Jacqueline Hillier, who collected it from a private garden with unknown provenance. No one knows where it came from, and no one knows its species. In the trade, it is listed as Ulmus X "Jacqueline Hillier" or some version thereof... such as Ulmus X hollandica "Jacqueline Hillier" (as an unknown hybrid of U. hollandica and an unknown species). Despite its questionable history, it is very popular in landscape, to such an extent that it may ultimately become its own species
As far as your tree is concerned, you have to look at it with the future in mind. Right now it has good bones... if you wanted a bonsai that is 12" tall. However if you want it to grow larger and increase the caliper, you have to decide how you want to guide that growth. If you want a 12" (tall) tree, you would have one plan. If you want a 12" (wide) tree, you would have a very different plan.
Some of it has to do with the tree species... and what would look best for the tree. An American elm that is 12" tall? Perhaps not so good. A Chinese elm - Seiju or other dwarf - as a 12" tall? Easy. Jacqueline Hillier is unique on many levels, but I consider it a smaller elm with smaller leaves on average. So you have to think like a tree artist - and with the the species as your pallet... what can you do to maximize its beauty?
[EDIT] Wait. What? Apologies, but for whatever reason I read this thread the first time, and perhaps (due to skimming) I mistakenly thought we were talking about Hillier elms instead of Dutch elms. They are closely related... but not the same. Sorry about the distraction, but my comments about styling for future growth are still applicable, IMHO [/EDIT]
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
It all depends. You could have a shorter tree that you develop to have a thicker trunk... or a tall graceful tree that you restrain trunk development on. With bonsai, you are playing a little bit with artistic perspective, and many people are attracted to taper in the trunk that might look strange on a full-sized tree in the wild. However for a tree in a pot, having dramatic taper starts to fool the eye into feeling like you are standing at the base of a large tree, looking upwards, particularly if the apex of the tree leans towards the viewer. It is by no means an absolute rule, but it is an aesthetic that many embrace.
If you wanted to have a thicker tree, you would typically let part of the tree grow unpruned and unhindered as a "sacrifice" branch that would get the trunk to increase in caliper. When the trunk increases to the size you want, you would prune away the sacrifice growth (which would tend to be lanky and ugly). In a perfect world, while you are letting one branch grow as a sacrifice, you are maintaining all your other branches for their future roles in the design of your finished bonsai - ie not letting them get too big and ugly. With sacrifice branches the branch scar is also a consideration. Sometimes it is better to have more than one sacrifice branch, if two small scars will heal faster than one large one. It all depends on the tree.
zero
Mame
Indeed- and thanks so much for your reply. My two dear friends who have started this journey a bit ahead of me bought me a book by Harry Harrington- Bonsai Basics: The Foundations Of Bonsai which has been a nice simple introduction. Luckily we have the magic of the internet to help us get abreast of the subject as beginners as well. I suppose that can sometimes be a curse though in its own right, with all the miscommunication and such. I appreciate your insights!
Hi @zero
Welcome to the forum.
I have a small JH elm. They are very tough. My dog has taken it out of it's pot 3 times and bitten branches off, bitten roots off and ragged it. On its last attack it took me 3 days to find it! it is now back in a pot and starting to bud out. I am going to have to leave it for several years though to grow out of the damage done. Nice little tree. Lovely small bonsai sized leaves, very short internodes. It's a great go-to tree for beginners in my opinion, and yours looks great. Loads of potential.
Welcome to the forum.
I have a small JH elm. They are very tough. My dog has taken it out of it's pot 3 times and bitten branches off, bitten roots off and ragged it. On its last attack it took me 3 days to find it! it is now back in a pot and starting to bud out. I am going to have to leave it for several years though to grow out of the damage done. Nice little tree. Lovely small bonsai sized leaves, very short internodes. It's a great go-to tree for beginners in my opinion, and yours looks great. Loads of potential.
zero
Mame
Wow that story!! Well now I’m feeling confident 
Thanks so much for the welcome and I hope we can watch our trees grow to be beautiful Hillier Elms.
Thanks so much for the welcome and I hope we can watch our trees grow to be beautiful Hillier Elms.The "rule" if there is such a thing would determine that the best ratio of trunk girth to height should be 1:6 therefore a 36 inch tree "should" have a trunk girth of 6 inches. But to be honest if you look around the forum there are many fantastic trees that do not conform to this rule. There are also many amazing trees that do!
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Agent Zero!
I saw this tree awesome tree Friday, but I thought you looked familiar!
Welcome to Crazy!
Sorce
I saw this tree awesome tree Friday, but I thought you looked familiar!
Welcome to Crazy!
Sorce
zero
Mame
Okay good to have clarified and yeah- I’ll probably be humble and just shoot for growing the tree out at a normal rate at this stage and hope to one day get a decent looking 24 inch tree. Thinking about it and want I’ve seen I do t believe it’s be correct for me to think that I’ll grow *this* tree out to have a 6 inch trunk, I should focus on the basics. I’m still trying to decide which limbs I’ll have to remove to get the proper taper and height for the tree as it stands.The "rule" if there is such a thing would determine that the best ratio of trunk girth to height should be 1:6 therefore a 36 inch tree "should" have a trunk girth of 6 inches. But to be honest if you look around the forum there are many fantastic trees that do not conform to this rule. There are also many amazing trees that do!
zero
Mame
Sorce! Thanks for the reply
I love your presence on the forum- thanks for the welcome and I love your ceramics on your site!
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Do not worry. In general, most trees are between a 1:3 and 1:12 trunk-height ratio range. In the end, make branches shorter for elegant tall trees and you shoudl be fine avoidingint he shrub look.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Sorce! Thanks for the reply
Thank you kindly, I hope one day you own more than ....you, and that means 2!
Sorce
