Double trunk - how high could I layer?

[dbonsaiw]

I will likely layer off the main trunks separately, but wanted to know how high up it would be possible to layer and still keep the double trunk. Could I layer at the red line even though it looks like the two trunk fused there?

 

[BrianBay9]

The layer would probably work, but a twin trunk with both trunks of the same size isn't the best.

 

[dbonsaiw]

The layer would probably work, but a twin trunk with both trunks of the same size isn't the best.

Thanks and agreed. This was one of those impulse buys. Upon further inspection I realize the double trunk maybe isn't the best and will instead do a number of layers for future material.

 

[BobbyLane]

Why not though. with correct pruning technique, surely one can be held back while the other one is allowed to become thicker and more dominant, no?

Isnt that whats happened here?



The trunk girths on these twins are not too different in diameter but its clear which ones were chosen to be the dominant ones early on through pruning.
There are many examples like these.

 

[luvinthemountains]

its clear which ones were chosen to be the dominant ones early on through pruning

I agree that @dbonsaiw could consider this although it makes for a longer-term project. Ground growing could speed it up. Either way, it will take a lot of top growth to generate an appreciable difference in girth, but it seems like it should work. I have a few trees in development right now that are bets on this idea bearing fruit.

 

[BrianBay9]

The examples you show have more promise than we can see in the OP photo. Guess it depends on what's above the split out of the photo. The visible portion makes them look like two straight, taperless cylinders. Might be workable, but I'd still look for better material for a twin trunk.

 

[luvinthemountains]

The examples you show have more promise than we can see in the OP photo. Guess it depends on what's above the split out of the photo. The visible portion makes them look like two straight, taperless cylinders. Might be workable, but I'd still look for better material for a twin trunk.

I see your point. However, I think it could still be made to work with a low chop on the righthand trunk, a year or two after the air layer. With luck, one of those low nodes will sprout and could be wired to provide a pleasant continuation to make a subordinate trunk.

 

[BobbyLane]

Do multi trunk/twin trunk, with straight stem maples have to have great taper tho..
I could pull up a few good ones that really dont, thats not just maples either

 

[BobbyLane]

Few more pretty straight trunked trees, with subtle to not much taper that appear to work.

Ill leave peeps to do their own research, apologies for cluttering the thread.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Here's a pic of what's going on under the hood. Both trunks are relatively straight. Left is somewhat thicker than right and splits lower down than the right.

Mr. Lane, thanks for all those examples. You are not making this decision easy for me.

 

[BobbyLane]

Great so you have two trunks that have ready made leaders to taper off to and add movement. You couldnt see this? Id look to pick the two leaders that blend best together. Or have some harmony.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Great so you have two trunks that have ready made leaders to taper off to and add movement. You couldnt see this? Id look to pick the two leaders that blend best together. Or have some harmony.

Thanks. This was my thought as well when I purchased the tree and it had no foliage. I'm back to layering it as a double trunk, but will do it one node lower than the red line above. This weekend is probably airlayering time, so I have a couple days to change my mind a few more times.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Here's a pic with no foliage.

 

[Wulfskaar]

This weekend is probably airlayering time, so I have a couple days to change my mind a few more times.

I think I'm in the same boat. I've got choices to make and not a lot of time to make them!

 

[19Mateo83]

If it were mine I would go for a clump off of this it will get rid of that straight section.

And I would take advantage of that extra thickness from the second leader and layer the remaining stalk off like so. That would give you some taper and movement in the remaining trunk.

 

[Deleted member 32750]

If it were mine I would go for a clump off of this it will get rid of that straight section.
View attachment 484458
And I would take advantage of that extra thickness from the second leader and layer the remaining stalk off like so. That would give you some taper and movement in the remaining trunk.
View attachment 484460

That would be my suggestion as well.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

I like @19Mateo83 idea as well and all of @BobbyLane ideas. If you decide to go with the single trunk I would generally cut just below the node where they divide. Then layer or cut the other trunk the following season.

From https://bonsai4me.com/layering-techniques-for-bonsai/

"Make the ring barking point just below the section of the parent trees’ branch that roots are required, if it is possible, try to make the point of ring barking just below an old leaf node as it will contain many adventitious buds."

 

[Paradox]

That would be my suggestion as well.

Same.
The second branch/trunk is too straight

 

[Shibui]

Another reason for not using this as a twin trunk. The trunks are very close together for quite a ways up after the fork. Try to imagine what that will be like after both trunks thicken a bit more.
The second reason to be wary of that fork is the bark inclusion right at the fork. Check the black line running down from the fork. Those trunks are almost certainly not joined together at that point. Making the original proposed layer is likely to result in 2 separate trunks after it is cut.

Looking at the final shots it appears that the 2 trunks are not in harmony. Twin trunk is good but it is essential that both trunks have complimentary lines, taper and branching. I don't think this one has any of those things.

I've found that good twin trunk is much harder than it seems. Getting a single trunk with good nebari, nice bends and branches in attractive spots is hard enough. Getting the same with 2 trunks together is not just twice as hard, more like 4-6 times more difficult.

 

[dbonsaiw]

If it were mine I would go for a clump off of this it will get rid of that straight section.

Hmmm, I like that as well. So two layers - one to get the clump and one for a thicker single trunk. Tree may have been worth it just for the clump (I did not see that option).