Double trunk - how high could I layer?

[dbonsaiw]

but a twin trunk with both trunks of the same size isn't the best.

At the risk of sounding like my younger son, "but why?". I definitely like the look of a double trunk with one trunk being more dominant, but is that a rule of bonsai aesthetics (like, stay away from inverse taper)?

I have been searching for pics of twin trunks with two similarly sized trunks and this is what I found. (The last pic is a split trunk, but I think it conveys the point as well).

I will leave this tree as the last layer, as I appear to be pretty indecisive.

 

[BrianBay9]

At the risk of sounding like my younger son, "but why?". I definitely like the look of a double trunk with one trunk being more dominant, but is that a rule of bonsai aesthetics (like, stay away from inverse taper)?

I have been searching for pics of twin trunks with two similarly sized trunks and this is what I found. (The last pic is a split trunk, but I think it conveys the point as well).

I will leave this tree as the last layer, as I appear to be pretty indecisive.

Hey, it's your tree not mine. If you like it, then it works.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Hey, it's your tree not mine. If you like it, then it works.

I guess I introduced a new question into the thread. The first was what to do with this tree. As usual, I got great opinions that were on opposite spectrums. And since, I have been considering the attached possibility. At least for the next hour, that will be the preference. In short, the jury is still out.

The second question is more general and relates to what we can call "rules" of double trunks. What Shibui said about getting double trunks to look good resonated with me. I thought about the windswept style and the difficulties in pulling this style off. Because there are "rules" for this style. For example, I understand you just can't have the branches swept left and the trunk sweeping right. When I search for twin trunk bonsais, there is no question that the trees drawing me in are ones in which one trunk is clearly dominant. They follow the guidelines Shibui introduced regarding harmony in the trunks etc. Mr. Lane doesn't seem to be in disagreement, but suggested maybe my tree could get there. He also pushed it further and provided examples of great trees that do not follow these guidelines to the T.

In the end, I think I can find better material for a double trunk than this one and will likely end up with one version of the single trunk. But my question still stands - assuming trunks that are more harmonious, is a single dominant trunk required for a good twin trunk? I'm still not so sure it is (but always willing to discuss).

 

[BobbyLane]

If you dont mind layering its very easy to find decent twin material in most nurseries or garden centers. Thats just how trees grow, one trunk usually splits into two. and you can often find multiple trunks in the top of raw stock..
I lost count with how many decent twins I could make out of these.
When I wasnt into air layering id often overlook the tops of trees and just chop low right away, my tastes have change a bit.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I will try to see what can be done with this as a double trunk. Client is late for a meeting so I am playing with bonsai pics - btw, pics are a really poor substitute for the actual tree being in front of you. I simply can't tell what the real angles of the branches are.

I still have some time before the tree starts waking up, but this is what I am currently thinking. I tried to figure out the trunk lines keeping in mind the posts above and then was doodling.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Some more doodles. It's starting to grow on me.

 

[BobbyLane]

Some more doodles. It's starting to grow on me.

Doing this will help you to hone your eye and begin to envision how the tree could evolve. Based on where secondary branches are emerging from the primarys, you can start to sketch in how you would like them to shape up. I couldnt do a virt in my first 2 years, you pick it up.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Doing this will help you to hone your eye and begin to envision how the tree could evolve. Based on where secondary branches are emerging from the primarys, you can start to sketch in how you would like them to shape up. I couldnt do a virt in my first 2 years, you pick it up.

Many thanks. It's a great exercise, as frustrating as it is for me. Pics never seem to do justice to the trees and I find myself starring at the trees from different angles in the cold. Having a good time with this one. I will also say that finally having a few dozen trees has given me the opportunity to play around with some, while I try to be more traditional with others.

 

[dbonsaiw]

It is almost go-time and I am still doodling. I guess one of the big issues I am having is seeing past a hedge pruned version of the current tree and seeing the future bonsai.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Sphagnum moss is a pain to remove but produces nice roots.

 

[nuttiest]

I will try to see what can be done with this as a double trunk. Client is late for a meeting so I am playing with bonsai pics - btw, pics are a really poor substitute for the actual tree being in front of you. I simply can't tell what the real angles of the branches are.

I still have some time before the tree starts waking up, but this is what I am currently thinking. I tried to figure out the trunk lines keeping in mind the posts above and then was doodling.

the center blackened lines are strongest, what bold initial statement lines - yet cutting these to trunk means long healing time, how thick are the branches if you cut near to trunk?

 

[19Mateo83]

Sphagnum moss is a pain to remove but produces nice roots.

That worked out nicely!

 

[dbonsaiw]

the center blackened lines are strongest

Very deceptive tree in 2D and I think my rendering with the black lines makes the tree look like something it’s not. I think my next step will be to prune off whatever I know is useless and otherwise just prune the tree into a shape.

 

[nuttiest]

If you could only cut one branch this year, which would it be? Often doing that causes you to find a second.

 

[dbonsaiw]

If you could only cut one branch this year, which would it be? Often doing that causes you to find a second.

Hmmm. The issue for me is I'm still not sure what I want the tree to ultimately look like. Right now it has two main trunk lines, then a third one that splits off a main line and then other thick branches. I see 3 general choices (each with sub-choices):

1) Strip the tree down to basically a double trunk and start to grow the tree from there;
2) Use the 3 trunk lines and grow as more of a broom/natural style, removing the other thick branches;
3) Remove unneeded material and basically hedge prune.

Part of me wants to prune it back hard into a shorter double trunk. But that would require me to rip the tree apart and I'm not there yet.

 

[nuttiest]

The issue for me is I'm still not sure what I want the tree to ultimately look like

And that can be a good thing. Say to yourself because you don't know the future height or canopy shape, you just make the base bones to 10" or so, and see what it looks like next year. Surely some of the lower branches are awkward together?

 

[leatherback]

Just one picture from sort-of above does not help the understanding. Posting pictures from 4 sides, taken horizontal in front of a homogenous backgrond can help tu understand.

I think you just need to pic a trunk-line that works, and see whether you can use primaries. THe ones that do not work, cut short of even remove fully.

I cannot tell the smaller trunk. The bigger seems reasonable?

 

[dbonsaiw]

Just one picture from sort-of above does not help the understanding.

Agreed. I will post additional ones, but what you sketched out is basically along the lines of what I am thinking.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Hope this is more helpful. Would you prune off the “third trunk” in the back? Prune it back?

 

[dbonsaiw]

Better pic