Does pruning only the very tips of Ume, cause better flowering on entire branch to tip?

[0soyoung]

Gibberellins were discovered in Japan from a fungus (Gibberella fujikuroi) that caused rice to bolt.

It has since been learned that gibberellins or gibberellic acids play a dominant role in regulating flowering, seed development and seed germination. There are more than 100 types; GA3 is simply the most common and easiest to synthesize.


btw, the fungus was identified by a cousin of the BeeGees brothers, Ralph Gibb (I'm trumping you now).

 

[エドガー]

I saw an Ume episode on NHK once, and the narrator or gardener said (translated to), "Don't prune a cherry. DO prune an ume."

 

[エドガー]

I have a ume flower problem in Oregon. My father in law in Los Angeles grows hundreds of ume trees that all flower. I planted one in the ground 5 years ago in Oregon (and have several as bonsai) but I can never get it to flower more than a couple blooms. This tree is 10ft tall. It never drops its leaves and it leaves out before blooming here which seems odd to me considering our climate is similar to Japan's. It is the eating variety so it should make lots of flowers. Wondering if anyone in the PNW has a similar problem.

Same here...

I've had my Ume for 2 winters now (3 years total)... the leaves don't fully drop, even in January already! - some do, but not fully... they look like they are just about to fall though in January.
My plan was to leave it alone to drop naturally this winter... but, then I saw a couple flowers and didn't want them hidden. So, my patience broke and I manually removed them to show the flowers. Doh!

Me too... only a handfull of blooms here and there. Nothing consistent and super random and hardly noticeable from a distance. And def not on the entire tree unfortunately.

Mine are 3-4 years old, grafted whips. I'm aware non-grafted seedlings take much much longer to flower (Japanese friends tell me decades even).

Unlike yours though; mine leaves out in spring, after the few blooms in late winter.

Odd... I would think PNW is much better... because more chill-hours and colder climate. It's quite dry and hot here in SoCal and I only get 300-400 chill-hours per winter.

Since your father-in-law grows hundreds... maybe you should ask for his advice and share his tips here.
I didn't even know Ume was popular enough to be grown by the hundreds in the US (but in Japan, China and Asia though... yes, of course... as they eat it and also ornamental use).

Eating-variety and ornamental/bonsai/niwaki varieties I assume will be mostly growth-rate differences. Eating-variety (standard single white and single pink) will be much more vigorous and flowered I assume... vs. the slower-growing, weaker purer reds and double flowers.
I have 2 generic eating-variety - single white and single pink... and the white grows 2-3x faster/bigger than the pink. My white didn't flower last winter; but this winter, I am finally seeing a few blooms! Exciting.

 

[NaoTK]

My family is Japanese/Taiwanese so ume is king. My father in law sells the fruit by the pound in LA to the local Japanese folk and makes his own umeshu. good stuff.

The variety I have is a single pink flower.

After reading these comments, I'm beginning to think my tree is just too young and vigorous at only 6 yo. Especially planted in the ground, the tree is more interested in vegetative growth which would explain others observing more flowering in a pot. Same with keeping the leaves, it is young and in the ground so it is too vigorous to drop leaves. My father in law's trees drop its leaves in LA btw, but it is much older.

 

[エドガー]

Looks a lot nicer than mine.

Can you ask him what month the leaves are supposed to drop in LA?

 

[エドガー]

Here is my Pink in the backyard on Jan 11th.

Shown here, it is flowering same as last year - center of tree and in “fruit spurs.”
Albeit, much more flowers than last year.

I also have never pruned it in the 3 years I’ve had it (only “tipped” it recently this winter) ...mainly because it is much smaller and slower than my White Ume front yard.

I’ve pruned my White one tho, every summer or late spring... because the shoots are always like +6’ lol. I prune it down to 16-24” or cut to a smaller branch.

 

[エドガー]

And here is the same Pink Ume in backyard, on Jan 20... about 2weeks after I “tipped” it.

Red circle = it is flowering on a long, leggy, non-fruit-spur branch for the first time.
Also, it has never flowered past the blue-circle area before.

 

[エドガー]

And here is my single White ume in front yard.

Every summer or late spring, I’ve pruned it... because the shoots are always like +6’ long. I prune its’ branches down to 24” the first season, then 16”, then 10”, etc. ...Or, to a shorter/smaller branch.

It has never flowered before... so this is the first time I saw flowers on it (so far, only on “fruit spurs” tho). Although, just less than a handful of flowers, it’s better than nothing.

Yes, I also “tipped” it 2.5 weeks ago.
I will update if I see any flowers bloom on the long branches.

It seems to grow and is more vigorous than my Pink ume... maybe 3x more vigorous.
eg: Pink usually makes 2-3’ sprouts, and White makes +6’ sprouts.


Somethings I really want to know is - when is best to prune, and how often? (for niwaki in-ground ume)

Peter from Heron’s told me August is best.

A well-experienced gardener in Japan told me dormant season is best. And if possible, also in mid-late July/summer. So that sounds like 2x per year.

I’ve pruned once in late spring before... and the new shoots by fall turn out to be too long. I’ve also tried pruning late in summer/early-fall; and the shoots by winter are short obviously.
So maybe it is similar to pruning JBP slightly (timing wise) - in that, if you cut candles too soon, you’ll end up with overly-long branches by dormant season.

 

[opusoculi]

I got some replies from 2 different professional gardeners/horticulturalists in Japan (both are well known, respected and teach/lecture).

Keep in mind, in Japan, there are 3 different types of Ume, since they actually eat them there:
- Farm: Focuses on fruit yields. Structure made low and wide, for easy harvesting (usually vase or T style). Zero ornamental use.
- Garden/Niwaki (home or public): Purely ornamental use, both structure and flower location. Structure made tall, and slightly more narrow than farm style.
- Bonsai: Purely ornamental use, both structure and flower location.

Japanese gardener #1:
"True to what he says. But this video focuses on ume fruit yields and is not applicable to garden trees."

Japanese gardener #2:
"He is a farmer. He hates the loss of flowers and the loss of fruits. That's not how I prune."


Yes, the video is more farm-style and non-ornamental style of pruning.... but, at least, we have learned a legitimate technique in how to make an entire branch bloom all the way to the tip/outer-branch, if you ever needed/wanted to do so.

I will update with pics if I see any results in a few week

I much appreciate your obstinacy in defending and fueling the initial interest of your question.
You and japanese gardeners teach us that there are 3 kids of Ume, ( 2 concern west gardeners) this is what we have to start with so as, not to go wrong.
I bought 10 years ago 2 grafted Ume plants. During 10 years i have never been able to drive them in little bonsai.
They do not make wood buds or regrowth on branches aged 2 years. And leaves appears only 4 ou 6 weeks after flowering. I think those two trees are in the second category that you mentioned in your message.
I have another Ume in a bonsai for several years. I cut it after flowering, it grows where I cut it, it flowers without problem, it grows like a nice bonsai type without posing any problem.
I can tell you that I am able to compare the two kinds of trees and many other species; so, for sure i am not dreaming , there are two kinds of Ume trees whose groth is quite different.
Thanks for your helpful contribution in confirming that. (Scuse me if i speak english as a french).

And for fun, a photography of the incridible Osaka collection. (photo in: sophie Le Berre Japan blog in french, you can open it).

 

[opusoculi]

Somethings I really want to know is - when is best to prune, and how often? (for niwaki in-ground ume)

Peter from Heron’s told me August is best.

A well-experienced gardener in Japan told me dormant season is best. And if possible, also in mid-late July/summer. So that sounds like 2x per year.

About those two different period of pruning either in august or during winter:
- in rainy and cold climate, pseudonomas bacteriosis are to be feared, so pruning is better in august,
- in Japan winters are not very rainy, and as in continental climate you can prune in winter.
Depending on the risk of winter bacteriosis the pruning period will be relevant, in relation to your climate.
In addition , you can always prune if necessary the green extensions in june and july.
But just after blossom is my practice.