Do Japanese bonsai "purists" consider chojubai bonsai?

[Don Blackmond]

Adair's comment in the wakaebisu thread about bonsai "purists" in Japan not considering azalea to be bonsai made me wonder whether they consider chojubai to be bonsai. Are chojubai bonsai? Good bonsai candidates? Bad bonsai candidates? Nothing more than accent plants?

If you look at photos from Japanese shows or galleries you will almost always see chojubai. Are they treated any different than satsuki azalea?

The same goes for ficus. Some bonsai practitioners don't consider ficus anything more than weeds. Others think deciduous trees aren't good bonsai.

I think chojubai make excellent bonsai. They have all characteristics to make excellent bonsai, but they don't grow in a manner that conforms to "bonsai rules".

 

[garywood]

Don, do you think it's acceptable to use worms as bait for Trout? The can is opened.

 

[Djtommy]

It looks like they are treated different, perhaps because traditionally they often had been used as accent plant and they kinda grow themselves onto a more bonsai status.
Chojubai can look nice all year long too even when no flowers, tiny leaves and nice bark make for that. And they dont take up too much space.

 

[Steve Kudela]

Adair's comment in the wakaebisu thread about bonsai "purists" in Japan not considering azalea to be bonsai made me wonder whether they consider chojubai to be bonsai. Are chojubai bonsai? Good bonsai candidates? Bad bonsai candidates? Nothing more than accent plants?

If you look at photos from Japanese shows or galleries you will almost always see chojubai. Are they treated any different than satsuki azalea?

The same goes for ficus. Some bonsai practitioners don't consider ficus anything more than weeds. Others think deciduous trees aren't good bonsai.

I think chojubai make excellent bonsai. They have all characteristics to make excellent bonsai, but they don't grow in a manner that conforms to "bonsai rules".[/QUOTE Hey Don, I don't have any chojubai but I have seen a number of them here and a few other places. I personally think they make great bonsai. Same with Satsuki and probably a number of others that might not be considered by some to make good bonsai. Would Banksia rose be considered good bonsai? I have a good one and I'm gonna keep it regardless of what anyone else thinks. Not to be a smartmouth about it, but I like what I like. And for us in this country, we have a lot of things that folks in other nations may not like but will work and make great trees. But, as I said in the above mentioned post, I certainly understand a little about tradition and try to have much respect for others thoughts and ideas. Just my little 2 cents worth. Thanks for bringing this up Sir.

 

[drew33998]

I think they used to be used as accent plants and then made it to the main stream as bonsai somehow.

 

[Adair M]

I concur with Drew. I believe that's how the Chojubai craze got started. As accent plants.

Don, satsuki azalea get shown at Kokufu, so the segregation is not absolute. But the azalea fanciers have their own shows just for azalea.

 

[Stickroot]

How do you use your Chojubai in show? As an accent? Or

 

[grouper52]

Adair's comment in the wakaebisu thread about bonsai "purists" in Japan not considering azalea to be bonsai made me wonder whether they consider chojubai to be bonsai. Are chojubai bonsai? Good bonsai candidates? Bad bonsai candidates? Nothing more than accent plants?

If you look at photos from Japanese shows or galleries you will almost always see chojubai. Are they treated any different than satsuki azalea?

The same goes for ficus. Some bonsai practitioners don't consider ficus anything more than weeds. Others think deciduous trees aren't good bonsai.

I think chojubai make excellent bonsai. They have all characteristics to make excellent bonsai, but they don't grow in a manner that conforms to "bonsai rules".

[The mood: ornery. The time: late at night]

Will we look back one day on the precious time we've had on this earth with abject horror that we wasted even a small portion of it on such meaningless questions?

Time better spent, certainly, on the poetry thread, reading Wallace Stevens:

Of Mere Being

The palm at the end of the mind,
Beyond the last thought, rises
In the bronze decor,

A gold-feathered bird
Sings in the palm, without human meaning,
Without human feeling, a foreign song.

You know then that it is not the reason
That makes us happy or unhappy.
The bird sings. Its feathers shine.

The palm stands on the edge of space.
The wind moves slowly in the branches.
The bird's fire-fangled feathers dangle down.

 

[GroveKeeper]

[The mood: ornery. The time: late at night]

Will we look back one day on the precious time we've had on this earth with abject horror that we wasted even a small portion of it on such meaningless questions?

Time better spent, certainly, on the poetry thread, reading Wallace Stevens:

Of Mere Being

The palm at the end of the mind,
Beyond the last thought, rises
In the bronze decor,

A gold-feathered bird
Sings in the palm, without human meaning,
Without human feeling, a foreign song.

You know then that it is not the reason
That makes us happy or unhappy.
The bird sings. Its feathers shine.

The palm stands on the edge of space.
The wind moves slowly in the branches.
The bird's fire-fangled feathers dangle down.

Nothing is meaningless. It's a series of events taking us from one place to another and we're just along for the ride.

 

[Djtommy]

Nothing is meaningless. It's a series of events taking us from one place to another and we're just along for the ride.

perhaps the whole ride is meaningless.
i can take peace with that

 

[VAFisher]

Don, do you think it's acceptable to use worms as bait for Trout? The can is opened.

Absolutely not. A floating fly presented with a bamboo fly rod fitted with a silk line is the only acceptable method.

 

[sorce]

Then it is like the difference between the cold, high mountain stream of trout....

And the local pond stocked so heavily the kids can't miss with the worm.

@Don Blackmond
The only one acceptable to me as bonsai so far....is the one Sergio has from you.

Then again....this thread is going nowhere without pictures.

Sorce

 

[Don Blackmond]

[The mood: ornery. The time: late at night]

Will we look back one day on the precious time we've had on this earth with abject horror that we wasted even a small portion of it on such meaningless questions?

You are spending your time reading meaningless posts about a meaningless hobby on a meaningless message board. Yep, you should be looking with abject horror at how you spend your time. In all seriousness, please don't read or respond to my posts. You are not welcome.

 

[Don Blackmond]

Then again....this thread is going nowhere without pictures.

Sorce

No pictures necessary. The thread is dead. Go back to the regularly scheduled "HELP: IS IT DEAD???" threads. There's no abject horror there....

 

[GrimLore]

I think chojubai make excellent bonsai. They have all characteristics to make excellent bonsai, but they don't grow in a manner that conforms to "bonsai rules".

Honest, no offense intended. I am pretty certain you answered the question right there. Bottom line it is a shrub, a darn nice one and can be presented nicely but to a purist...

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

I concur with Drew. I believe that's how the Chojubai craze got started. As accent plants.

Don, satsuki azalea get shown at Kokufu, so the segregation is not absolute. But the azalea fanciers have their own shows just for azalea.

You read my mind...so,I ponder...are they put on a pedestal all their own with the fanciers who do showings of only azalea? If they make Kokufu...how can they not be seen as bonsai...other than ones take them to another level with seclusion of an all azalea show? I didn't read your post Don is referring to...so I am off to go read that input.

 

[johng]

Adair's comment in the wakaebisu thread about bonsai "purists" in Japan not considering azalea to be bonsai made me wonder whether they consider chojubai to be bonsai. Are chojubai bonsai? Good bonsai candidates? Bad bonsai candidates? Nothing more than accent plants?

I am no expert Don, but I have never heard/read anything that would indicate that they are viewed similarly. I remember seeing several in Kimura's garden and he "appears" to be one of the azalea haters (none in his garden as bonsai the one time I was there). Personally, I have never had any interest in Japanese quince.

This would probably be a good question for Bill V!

 

[Adair M]

Chojubai as bonsai is a relatively new thing. When I started in bonsai over 40 years ago, they were unknown. Other types of quince, however, were used. Toyo Nishiki, I can remember specifically as one of the cultivars pictured in my old books.

The appeal of Chojubai is its "quirkiness". It's SO different from everything else on the bench. Think of it as the cherry on top of the ice cream Sundae. Your conifers are the ice creme, your deciduous trees the chocolate syrup. And the Chojubai as the cherry on top!

Chojubai come in two colors, red and white. There are variations in the intensity of the red, the mostly highly prized are the deepest red.

Contrast that with the hundreds of cultivars of azalea. Many more varieties of colors, patterns, flower size and shape.

I'm afraid a show of nothing but Chojubai would be pretty boring... Besides, you never know when it will decide to bloom!

 

[Paradox]

I don't care what other people think.
Purists in anything are nothing but a big pain in the ass imo.

Chochubai are all the rage here in the last few years so who cares what the purists say.

Sergio's little chochubai sure looks like a bonsai to me and others I've seen as well.

I'd love to have one like Sergio's on my bench, sadly it's probably out of my price range right now.

 

[Dav4]

If you read Michael Hagedorn's blog, you'll see that he has a special place in his heart for chojubai. In this post to his blog, https://crataegus.com/2011/12/22/chojubai-quince-diminutive-jewels/, he discusses the history of chojubai in Japan, starting in the 1970's as scraggly accent pieces to the current crop of show stoppers. Perhaps tastes have changed or maybe it's just a fad, but fad or not, I'm glad they have moved onto the big stage, along with azaleas.