Damping off?

[Glen Y]

Hey man, how's it growin'?

Still growing strong!
They are all doing great!

Congratulation. good thing you got here, lots of people willing to help and share knowledg.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Congratulation. good thing you got here, lots of people willing to help and share knowledg.

The Bonsai Nuts definitely helped me save them, so I wanted to share the positive results so far.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I suggest misting with a solution of 2 tablespoons 3% hydrogen peroxide (from the grocery/pharmacy) in a quart of water, instead of just water. Peroxide is a broad spectrum fungicide - actually an antiseptic, meaning it also nixes a lot of bacteria also

0so have you ever tried running that solution through a cool mist humidifier?

I don’t understand enough about how the cool mist is produced by the humidifer to know if it would work with such a solution

i also don’t know if that smokey-type mist would be effective as a fungicide, or whether a spray-type mist is required

thank you!

 

[0soyoung]

0so have you ever tried running that solution through a cool mist humidifier?

I don’t understand enough about how the cool mist is produced by the humidifer to know if it would work with such a solution

i also don’t know if that smokey-type mist would be effective as a fungicide, or whether a spray-type mist is required

thank you!

I haven't, but it seems like a reasonable thing to try.

Cool misting. IIRC, uses ultrasonic sound instead of heat to produce the mist. IOW, the mist ought to contain peroxide and be antiseptic, just as though it was pumped out by a hand spray.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I haven't, but it seems like a reasonable thing to try.

Cool misting. IIRC, uses ultrasonic sound instead of heat to produce the mist. IOW, the mist ought to contain peroxide and be antiseptic, just as though it was pumped out by a hand spray.

Thank you!!! I’m going to give it a try

 

[Gabler]

Just keep in mind that pines develop a beneficial fungus buffer around their roots, so don't use fungicide prophylactically if you don't have to.

 

[Wulfskaar]

UPDATE: Just moved some of the black pines to bonsai soil. They have survived not getting enough sun, to getting too much sun, 3 Santa Ana dry wind events where I thought they were goners, and (mild) winter where they turned purple! They look good to me now and I had some bonsai soil left, so I went ahead and separated them and repotted into slightly larger pots. They had great roots, as far as I can tell. I didn't see any root that looked like a taproot as each seedling has several longer roots with finer roots coming off of them, so I did not attempt to trim the roots. Now I'll just wait and see what happens!

Thanks again to those that guided me past near death!

Here are two of them:

 

[Wulfskaar]

Here's another update. They are doing well so far!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I just repotted the JBP's that I left in the peat pot. They look like they are starting to come back to life and the candles on the ones I repotted last year are starting to grow. I think it's a good time for the repot. The only hard part was separating the roots. They certainly took a bit of damage, but I tried to keep them in tact as much as possible.

Sep 2020


May 2021


Jan 2022

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

There is a knack to starting with seeds, you seem to have learned it. Nice.

 

[Wulfskaar]

There is a knack to starting with seeds, you seem to have learned it. Nice.

Thanks! Honestly, I think I hamper Mother Nature more than not. Still, I appreciate the confidence boost! I've got a TON more seeds that will soon be out of the fridge, so I'll have another whack at it.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Here's one from the same batch that's doing very well. This one has the longest and most healthy looking candle so far. It also appears to have a small branch coming out from the right side of the base of the candle. This was repotted into bonsai soil last year.

I'm assuming the yellow tips are from too much watering. I have not fertilized since Fall until the other day and I used 3-3-3, which seems pretty weak in comparison to some that I have seen. I do water often, maybe too often.

 

[Shibui]

I'm assuming the yellow tips are from too much watering. I have not fertilized since Fall until the other day and I used 3-3-3, which seems pretty weak in comparison to some that I have seen.

Yellow tips can be a number of things - too much water resulting in root damage = dehydration, Not enough water = dehydration, nutrient deficiency from not enough fert, fungal infection though that is not usually confined to the tips of needles.
Note that fert strength is related to how much it is diluted. 2 cups of 3-3-3 in a gallon of water gives exactly the same concentration as 1 cup of 6-6-6 in the gallon of water and slightly stronger than 1/2 cup of 10-10-10 in a gallon. Always consider the NPK numbers in relation to application rates and dilution rates for a valid comparison.

Earlier you mentioned transplanting with as little root damage as possible. Have you thought about when you will begin root work to promote good nebari? I know seedlings seem fragile and beginners are usually frightened but I've found that the best time to start root pruning is right at the start because seedlings get over root pruning really easily. I now root prune pine seedlings quite hard at first transplant and that results in many new roots close to the trunk - just what you need to develop better nebari in future.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Yellow tips can be a number of things - too much water resulting in root damage = dehydration, Not enough water = dehydration, nutrient deficiency from not enough fert, fungal infection though that is not usually confined to the tips of needles.
Note that fert strength is related to how much it is diluted. 2 cups of 3-3-3 in a gallon of water gives exactly the same concentration as 1 cup of 6-6-6 in the gallon of water and slightly stronger than 1/2 cup of 10-10-10 in a gallon. Always consider the NPK numbers in relation to application rates and dilution rates for a valid comparison.

Earlier you mentioned transplanting with as little root damage as possible. Have you thought about when you will begin root work to promote good nebari? I know seedlings seem fragile and beginners are usually frightened but I've found that the best time to start root pruning is right at the start because seedlings get over root pruning really easily. I now root prune pine seedlings quite hard at first transplant and that results in many new roots close to the trunk - just what you need to develop better nebari in future.

I'm using the 3-3-3 per gallon of water as recommended on the bottle. Last year I doubled the concentration to 6-6-6 but it seemed to cause some harm (although it could have been the weather). I got nervous that I was overdoing it and went back to 3-3-3.

As for the watering, I water 4-5 times per week or more if it's hot. If anything, it might be too much (?). I'm still trying to figure out watering on these JBP's.

I will definitely be working the roots next year on this batch, but I have a new batch that will soon be germinating. I am considering cutting or at least trimming the roots at a very early stage. I saw someone (I can't remember who) on here that basically cut off the roots on JBP very young and dipped the stems in rooting hormone. He had fantastic looking results, so I may try that on some of them.

I am still very open to advice, as you guys have saved my trees already on numerous occasions! Thank you!

 

[Shibui]

I saw someone (I can't remember who) on here that basically cut off the roots on JBP very young and dipped the stems in rooting hormone. He had fantastic looking results, so I may try that on some of them.

There have been a few post about seedling cuttings of JBP but it is likely to be @cmeg1. He was showing some great results. My experience wit seedling cuttings has been variable. I get more consistently better root systems just by pruning the seedling root really hard at that first transplant. As usual there's more than one way to grow a bonsai.

I'm using the 3-3-3 per gallon of water as recommended on the bottle. Last year I doubled the concentration to 6-6-6 but it seemed to cause some harm (although it could have been the weather). I got nervous that I was overdoing it and went back to 3-3-3.

I see I did not explain properly.
Doubling, or any increase, of recommended fertilizer concentration is risky because the plants may be getting toxic levels of some nutrients. Always follow recommendations on the pack.
3-3-3 has low nutrient analysis but when used as recommended should supply about the same nutrients as a fert with higher NPK numbers because the makers of the more concentrated fert will be recommending a lower mixing rate.
As an example I have 2 soluble ferts here. The first is 25-5-8.8 and recommended rate is 9grams per 4.5litres (1/2 tablespoon per gal) The other is 12-1.4-7 and recommended mixing is 45 grams in 4.5 litres of water (2 tablespoon per gal). You can see the lower concentrated fert is mixed stronger. If you do the math the 25-5-8.8 gives 2.25 grams of N per gallon - (25% of 9grams). The 12-1.4-7 gives 5.4 grams N per gallon (12% of 45 grams) so the lower rated fert actually supplies more N to the plants when used at the recommended concentration. (apologies for mixing metric and imperial measurements but the numbers are relative whatever measure is used so just focus on the numbers here)
I just checked a couple of 3-3-3 formulations. Recommended rate of one of those is 1 tbsp/gal - (20 grams per gal.) which works out to 0.6 g per gal of N so you are correct about that one being really weak fertilizer when used at recommended concentration. Another 3-3-3 formula recommends up to 1oz per gal which is about 3 times as strong giving nearly 1 gram of N in each gallon.

Just because the numbers are lower does not always mean it supplies less nutrients to the plants. When you are trying to compare 2 different fertilizers you need to allow for the recommended mixing rates rather than just concentrating on the NPK numbers.

 

[Wulfskaar]

There have been a few post about seedling cuttings of JBP but it is likely to be @cmeg1. He was showing some great results. My experience wit seedling cuttings has been variable. I get more consistently better root systems just by pruning the seedling root really hard at that first transplant. As usual there's more than one way to grow a bonsai.


I see I did not explain properly.
Doubling, or any increase, of recommended fertilizer concentration is risky because the plants may be getting toxic levels of some nutrients. Always follow recommendations on the pack.
3-3-3 has low nutrient analysis but when used as recommended should supply about the same nutrients as a fert with higher NPK numbers because the makers of the more concentrated fert will be recommending a lower mixing rate.
As an example I have 2 soluble ferts here. The first is 25-5-8.8 and recommended rate is 9grams per 4.5litres (1/2 tablespoon per gal) The other is 12-1.4-7 and recommended mixing is 45 grams in 4.5 litres of water (2 tablespoon per gal). You can see the lower concentrated fert is mixed stronger. If you do the math the 25-5-8.8 gives 2.25 grams of N per gallon - (25% of 9grams). The 12-1.4-7 gives 5.4 grams N per gallon (12% of 45 grams) so the lower rated fert actually supplies more N to the plants when used at the recommended concentration. (apologies for mixing metric and imperial measurements but the numbers are relative whatever measure is used so just focus on the numbers here)
I just checked a couple of 3-3-3 formulations. Recommended rate of one of those is 1 tbsp/gal - (20 grams per gal.) which works out to 0.6 g per gal of N so you are correct about that one being really weak fertilizer when used at recommended concentration. Another 3-3-3 formula recommends up to 1oz per gal which is about 3 times as strong giving nearly 1 gram of N in each gallon.

Just because the numbers are lower does not always mean it supplies less nutrients to the plants. When you are trying to compare 2 different fertilizers you need to allow for the recommended mixing rates rather than just concentrating on the NPK numbers.

I really appreciate that! This is extremely good information. I was looking at it much more simplistically but see that I was wrong. Based on how my trees reacted last year, I feel it's much safer to follow the instructions. It does get very confusing.

I'm currently using Uncle Bill's Bonsai Brew (3-3-3 liquid) and the recommended dosage is 1 TBS per gallon every 2 weeks. I'll stick with that for now since I only have a couple more months worth in the bottle.

 

[cmeg1]

I get more consistently better root systems just by pruning the seedling root really hard

I can definately travel to this camp also ,as I have been really wanting to do a whole crop or at least a flat or so of some plain rooted seedlings.By trimming as you describe.
These type have there own special glory.

 

[Wulfskaar]

9 days of growth! Holy moly!

 

[Pitoon]

Once damp off has started you cannot stop it.

To help prevent damp off you NEED good air circulation. Also keep the soil moist, not wet. A little on the drier side is better than on the wet side.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Still going! Here are 3 of them. The others are still going too!