Da New 8822

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Well today was the first day I had to check/shift some soil. It looks like I grabbed both bags from the LA distribution center and not one from Phoenix so not a true test but the ones from LA are the same as what you got @HorseloverFat. Way less fines in both bags and a more uniform size from the other bags I sifted last year.

I'll grab the other bags from Phoenix tomorrow and see what those look like but if anyone wants what this is have your local Napa order in some bags from the LA distribution center. :p
 
Moridin, that coloration looks more on the gray scale that what Horse showed. I've always gotten that grayer type out here in NJ, but I am intending to buy a bag or two to amend my soil mix for next year and I too will give some feedback.

My soil mix for next year is shaping up to 1:1:1:1:1/2 parts saf-t-sorb, 8822, perlite, granite grit, ground pine bark.

I heard that the more ingredients the better so I figured why not!?
 
Orion_metalhead said:
Moridin, that coloration looks more on the gray scale that what Horse showed. I've always gotten that grayer type out here in NJ, but I am intending to buy a bag or two to amend my soil mix for next year and I too will give some feedback.

My soil mix for next year is shaping up to 1:1:1:1:1/2 parts saf-t-sorb, 8822, perlite, granite grit, ground pine bark.

I heard that the more ingredients the better so I figured why not!?
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That’s exactly what I’m doing! Affordable and available. Just noticed the granite grit at Menards this year.
E0DB7EE3-A849-4332-A6BC-BB8564244D92.jpeg55D7DDD2-78AD-4487-954C-F7CEFC8707C4.jpeg
Menards for my Oil Dri, Cherry stone, & perlite.
Napa for 8822. Various Ground bark from garden store.
Cheap!
It does seem that the additional ingredients helps reduce caking.
 
HorseloverFat said:
I’d like to take a moment to talk about this..

I noticed, upon my last purchase, that the Napa Part no. 8822 oil dry seemed.. different.... in color, fine percentage as well as weight.

Way fewer fines... darker color, and lighter.. upon my investigation, the “make-up” as far as listed ingredients/components is the same.

So my only guess is that this 8822 is coming from a different diatomite source or location.

When I went to speak with pur Regional (just 3) NAPA owner/manager.. he responded, “Oh! I’m real sorry! ..does it not work anymore?” To which I responded.. “Well it works the same, if not better!”.....

Soooo I don’t think I will get a satisfying answer.

🤣
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You should do some experimentation with the old and new stuff. See if there really is much of a difference.
 
Eckhoffw said:
That’s exactly what I’m doing! Affordable and available. Just noticed the granite grit at Menards this year.
View attachment 409015View attachment 409016
Menards for my Oil Dri, Cherry stone, & perlite.
Napa for 8822. Various Ground bark from garden store.
Cheap!
It does seem that the additional ingredients helps reduce caking.
Click to expand...
I wish I could get a bag of grit that big locally. Will have to try a few different places.

No 8822 at the moment, but what I'm using:

16374556320496822699000343083569.jpg

I crush the pine bark up in a hand grinder at the moment but I just bought a shredder last year so I'll be trying that out for easier and much faster bark destruction.

16374557096212556675002977026013.jpg
Basically what I'm working with right now but I have to add 8822 to this still.
 
Discussed at length here
Different colors mentioned starting in post #322
Conclusion is that DE in the US comes from two mines but packaging is identical. NAPA #8822 from one of the mines is superior and can be identified by the darker colors when it is wet.
 
DE is a mined product, it is perfectly normal for there to be variations in color. A change in color does not mean anything more than the mining has moved into a different part of the vein or strata or layer of DE. The color will vary as the iron content of the fossilized diatoms changes. Iron is deposited by groundwater seeping through the DE layer.

The change in particle size and less dust might mean the quarry replaced it's crushing and sifting equipment.

I've used DE off and on, and from various sources for 35 or more years. My first time was from the Maidenwell quarries in Australia, I was getting the 1 to 2 cm size, roughly 3/8 to 5/8 inch size particles. Used it for raising orchids. Then the same for bonsai. Maidenwell stopped exporting maybe 2002.

I dislike 8822 because the particle size is too small. I should contact EP Minerals and see if there's a larger particle size available.
 
Leo in N E Illinois said:
DE is a mined product, it is perfectly normal for there to be variations in color. A change in color does not mean anything more than the mining has moved into a different part of the vein or strata or layer of DE. The color will vary as the iron content of the fossilized diatoms changes. Iron is deposited by groundwater seeping through the DE layer.

The change in particle size and less dust might mean the quarry replaced it's crushing and sifting equipment.

I've used DE off and on, and from various sources for 35 or more years. My first time was from the Maidenwell quarries in Australia, I was getting the 1 to 2 cm size, roughly 3/8 to 5/8 inch size particles. Used it for raising orchids. Then the same for bonsai. Maidenwell stopped exporting maybe 2002.

I dislike 8822 because the particle size is too small. I should contact EP Minerals and see if there's a larger particle size available.
Click to expand...
Larger particle sizes are marketed as "Axis DE" but it is mostly distributed by the truck load (to golf courses). Some is bagged but finding a distributor is a challenge.
I did talk to EP and found them friendly and informative.
 
I have a few incidental side-by-side comparisons going on a few types of ficus and succulents... some needed repotting.. some did not.. so we shall see..

So far.. it performs VERY similar. 🤣

This darker stuff, if anything, seems more consistent.
 
Silentrunning said:
I hope NAPA just leaves the 8822 the way it is. If they find out we are using it they will put it in a bag that says BONSAI SOIL and charge $99 per bag.
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😂 Whoops! I'm pretty open with them about it. They already know... I'd bet that we make up over 1/3 of their RETAIL 8822 sales.

One of my local NAPA guys is ALSO one of the local "property managers" for a decent stretch of tree-collecting land.
 
Silentrunning said:
I hope NAPA just leaves the 8822 the way it is. If they find out we are using it they will put it in a bag that says BONSAI SOIL and charge $99 per bag.
Click to expand...

They know at a corporate level by the way. I know this because I have discussed it with a few people at our corporate office in Atlanta.

I manage a Napa auto parts here in Sacramento 😜
 
Orion_metalhead said:
I wish I could get a bag of grit that big locally. Will have to try a few different places.
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There are five grades of poultry grit. From small to large they are Chicken 1-3 and Turkey 1-2. Depending what product you buy, they will call it different things, but it should all be crushed granite. The largest piece size is going to be Turkey Grade 2, or Turkey Finisher Grit, which should be a uniform 1/4" piece size with rough edges.

Look around and you should be able to pick up a bag of Turkey Finisher Grit for about $12-$13 for a 50lb bag.
 
Moridin said:
They know at a corporate level by the way. I know this because I have discussed it with a few people at our corporate office in Atlanta.

I manage a Napa auto parts here in Sacramento 😜
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Maybe feel them out on obtaining some larger particle sizes??????
 
Joe Dupre' said:
Maybe feel them out on obtaining some larger particle sizes??????
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Then the bag would have to say Bonsai Substrate.. and it would be more 'spensive..

Because MEDIUM coarse is best for their PRODUCTS needs/uses.

Buuuut Moridin IS our "in" with NAPA! If anyone COULD find out.. it's him.. Hunter S Thompson from "where the buffalo roam".

I still think it would be financially IMPRUDENT for NAPA..

Unless!

Smaller batch, Coarser (as defined by packaging ALSO).. sell for 20 percent price increase.. In addition to "medium coarse".. maybe burrow facilities, man hours and storage FROM the "medium coarse" to house/package/manufacture the Coarser stuff.

I'd still pay it.

But you gotta figure more MACRO in reality.
 
Joe Dupre' said:
Even at $20.00 a bag with free shipping to any NAPA store, that would still be a good price.
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Oooh I like that. Centralized Storage location, Ideally close to A Diatomite source OR refinement area...Shuttled, By order, to regional Napas.
 
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