8822 Cousin It

[JacobL'etoile]

So, it’s your opinion that Anthony is writing nonsense just to troll me? That may very well be.

The problem is, there are people on this forum who thinks he has a clue!

Now, if the joke’s on me, and he’s simply a troll, well, my hat’s off to him. Well played.

I’m not so sure that he doesn’t believe all this nonsense.

As I understand his last post on this thread, he’s saying he would not trip the roots back. Wash them off, but not cut them. I suppose thus means he would then stuff them all back into the pot with fresh soil. Is thus correct, Anthony? No root pruning? Just wash and stuff them all back in?

Adair, I would say the rule of goats would apply here. It's a great way to deal with the troll/idiot question. Sanitized it says "if you "kiss" goats, even if its ironically or for the lulz, your still a goat "kisser""

 

[Adair M]

Sifu [Adair ]

What I questioned was washing off the soil, You break many
'of the fine feeder roots. Open wounds on the roots.
Which might allow germs to enter the wounds.
Later ending up with the tree having to be sprayed.

I never said anything about not cutting the roots when repotting.

I had hoped 0soyoung had read up on the above.

And no, I am not baiting you.
Good Day
Anthony

Well, now I’m more confused than ever! Washing soil off roots with water opens up wounds more than trimming roots?

 

[Anthony]

Think Sifu, think.

If you wash off all of the soil as versus cutting say and inch all
around sides and underneath.

Plant has a stable core, to grow back on.
As opposed to no core.
Recovery with a core is rapid.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Jcmmaple]

That is one crazy root system. I have not tried 100% Napa yet but I have it mixed with pumice and permitill with some. Do you do that with collected trees only or what?

 

[Adair M]

Think Sifu, think.

If you wash off all of the soil as versus cutting say and inch all
around sides and underneath.

Plant has a stable core, to grow back on.
As opposed to no core.
Recovery with a core is rapid.
Good Day
Anthony

But what about the supposed damages caused by the water washing away the soil? Vs cuts made by scissors. There is little damage made by washing the roots. Scissors obviously inflict damage.

Anthony, I bare root olives. All the way under the trunk. To where there IS NO SOIL NOR ROOTS under the trunk:



This was an “in process” picture. When I was done, all those little downward roots in the center were gone. There was about 3 inches of bare trunk bottom in the middle.

It grew like crazy afterwards.

 

[Cable]

Well, yeah, but did you kiss a goat afterward???

(I'm lost on this whole thread)

 

[Adair M]

I actually own a herd of goats. I can’t say that I’ve kissed any. I have birthed a few, milked many of them, bottle Fed more than I’d care to count, dehorned many of them, amongst other chores.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Goats are creepy. Those eyes. No thanks, I’d rather read this thread. Almost.

 

[AZbonsai]

Do you do that with collected trees only or what?

This was a nursery tree. I pretty much have all trees I am growing out in straight NAPA or Perlite. It creates very fine roots.

 

[Adair M]

Goats are creepy. Those eyes. No thanks, I’d rather read this thread. Almost.

Baby goats are really cute. The way they bounce around. If you bottle feed them, they act like puppies.

 

[Shibui]

Baby goats are really cute. The way they bounce around. If you bottle feed them, they act like puppies.

And then they grow up and start studying ways to get through, under or over fences in order to get into all the places you don't want them.......

Occasionally I think maybe it would be nice to get another dairy goat but the insanity soon passes.

We digress once again from the topic at hand.
I am also impressed with the root system pictured however, is it all due to the 8822? Good root pruning in the first instance produces similar results with my Tridents. Maybe good culture helped with this? Would another mix with good characteristics produce a similar result? I like to see more than one successful example before I call a theory proven.

Re Anthony's root damage issue: In gardening we regularly produce trauma in plants - lawnmower, hedge trimmer, pruning, etc. Plants survive natural trauma with pests and diseases damaging roots, leaves and branches. In bonsai we actually produce even more trauma with our pruning techniques and repotting but the plants can manage. I have found that they can cope with far more trauma than most allow for. Bare root and washing the roots does not seem to cause undue damage to a tree even if Anthony does not like the look of it.

 

[Anthony]

Shibui,

what I was looking for - was did anyone do any research on
the damage done with the loss of the fine feeder roots
due to the washing.

As you guys are always spraying some type of cide and we have
never had to use any insecticide or fungicide.
Good Day
Anthony

* After 30 years a search into the core of our trees, doing the
pie shape renewal, all the roots were still fine and no thick
roots had developed.

So we know our soil promotes fine feeder roots.
Like an air pot does.
Roots still circle the pot but they remain fine.

Less work for us.

 

[markyscott]

Would another mix with good characteristics produce a similar result?

Yes of course. Here’s a pretty nice yaupon rootball grown in Boon mix, before and after root work.



Yaupon are like azaleas- they pretty much only produce feeder roots.

In species whose roots tend to thicken in the pot, I believe you’ll find that roots tend to grow very differently in a really fine mix like 8822 or turface. Here are a couple of maples - the first grown in a really fine mix, the second in a coarser one. Don’t look at the quality of the tree - that would not be a fair comparison as one has been in bonsai culture a much longer time. But look instead at the nature of the roots. Much finer in the first example - like a big poof of cotton candy.


Can you get to B from A only using a very fine mix like 8822 or turface? Maybe, but I’ve not seen a good success story yet (including from me - i used turface for almost two decades). DE seems like it might be a reasonable add to your substrate, but if I were to use it, I’d probably start with @milehigh_7 ’s variety.

S

 

[Underdog]

I like to see more than one successful example before I call a theory proven.

This Tx Ceder Elm was picked up mid-spring and put in this basked of oil dry with some lava and bark from a 6 in pot. In one short growing season it completely filled the basket.
Pic is after I cut the bottom third off the roots.