Collected Lodgepole pine: anyone with relevant experience?

[Tycoss]

The last tree is just a little guy. It was slow to start, but seems to be growing strongly now. The trunk is thin with some movement, and there is lots of growth near the top and close to the trunk. The bark is also fairly nicely textured.
Could be a nice "naturalistic bunjin" in a few years.

 

[Vance Wood]

You ought to start thinking about branch selection if you are going to do a Literati.

 

[Tycoss]

It was collected six weeks ago, so actual cutting is a long way off. I want to see at least a couple of seasons of very strong growth, which will give me lots of time to think on designs. You've got a good eye for pines, Vance, so I may be asking your opinion when the time comes.

 

[Adair M]

I have two collected Lodgepole trunks that were grafted with JWP about 20 or so years ago. They don’t have any apparent disease issues.

 

[Tycoss]

I have two collected Lodgepole trunks that were grafted with JWP about 20 or so years ago. They don’t have any apparent disease issues.

I've seen those trees. The combination of the wildly expressive trunks with the refined JWP foliage is really impressive. I'm glad to hear you haven't had disease problems with them.

 

[parhamr]

I have some experience to share. Here’s a brain dump…

I’ve collected four from the SW Washington Cascades. Two of them survived (the deaths were from subpar root collection). I think they are all Pinus contorta var murrayana, but it’s possible they are the latifolia subspecies.

They were collected right around 3000 feet elevation at the very beginning of bud swell.

The bark of my oldest yamadori:


I have also purchased two that were collected from the Eastern Oregon Cascades. These are definitely murrayana.

The growth habit of the tree I’ve had the longest: (old photo, unstyled)


Overall:

• Tolerant of poor soils (e.g. sandy clay loam with low nutrients), but eager to populate pumice and composted bark with healthy roots
• Highly drought tolerant, but able to survive periods of extremely wet conditions
• Readily backbuds on six-year-old wood
• Extremely flexible and takes well to wiring
• Wounds and bark damage can look very normal and natural (a plus for aggressive wiring!)
• Susceptible to needle cast and extremely vulnerable to dwarf mistletoe
• Daconil, copper, and Cleary’s 3336 all work well
• Borer infestations are a concern and also pretty visible when they occur
• The annual needle shedding comes in a small enough window of time that I’ve been slightly alarmed (at how severely the tree appears to be dropping needles)

I’ve been getting two flushes a year on the tree I’ve had the longest.

 

[Tycoss]

I have some experience to share. Here’s a brain dump…

I’ve collected four from the SW Washington Cascades. Two of them survived (the deaths were from subpar root collection). I think they are all Pinus contorta var murrayana, but it’s possible they are the latifolia subspecies.

They were collected right around 3000 feet elevation at the very beginning of bud swell.

The bark of my oldest yamadori:
View attachment 200356

I have also purchased two that were collected from the Eastern Oregon Cascades. These are definitely murrayana.

The growth habit of the tree I’ve had the longest: (old photo, unstyled)
View attachment 200357

Overall:

• Tolerant of poor soils (e.g. sandy clay loam with low nutrients), but eager to populate pumice and composted bark with healthy roots
• Highly drought tolerant, but able to survive periods of extremely wet conditions
• Readily backbuds on six-year-old wood
• Extremely flexible and takes well to wiring
• Wounds and bark damage can look very normal and natural (a plus for aggressive wiring!)
• Susceptible to needle cast and extremely vulnerable to dwarf mistletoe
• Daconil, copper, and Cleary’s 3336 all work well
• Borer infestations are a concern and also pretty visible when they occur
• The annual needle shedding comes in a small enough window of time that I’ve been slightly alarmed (at how severely the tree appears to be dropping needles)

I’ve been getting two flushes a year on the tree I’ve had the longest.

It’s great to hear your thoughts and experience with the species. The backbudding and adaptability are a huge plus in my climate. I checked for mistletoe on these, as well as borers. They seem to be adjusting well, but I’ve seen some evidence of needle cast. I’ll get on the fungicide, as it’s not looking too severe yet. Any more pics of yours? I’d love to have a look.

 

[River's Edge]

I have some experience to share. Here’s a brain dump…
I’ve been getting two flushes a year on the tree I’ve had the longest.

That is an interesting comment.
I will be curious to see a list of those pines considered multi-flush after a decade or so of working with some of the pacific north west natives species. The longer i work with Pinus Contorta Contorta i believe it belongs on the list as well. Pre-conditioning seems to be a major factor for multi-flush.

 

[parhamr]

The longer i work with Pinus Contorta Contorta i believe it belongs on the list as well.

These haven’t been hugely strong flushes of growth but there are definitely two distinct periods of bud swell, candle push, and needle growth. It’s nowhere near as strong of a flush as the JBP.

Of note, I am in an aggressive routine of feeding and watering. Once I’ve transitioned to proper bonsai pots I’m guessing the growth may slow.

Any more pics of yours? I’d love to have a look.

Here’s a thread chronicling my progress: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/pinus-contorta-var-murrayana-progression.26770/

 

[River's Edge]

These haven’t been hugely strong flushes of growth but there are definitely two distinct periods of bud swell, candle push, and needle growth. It’s nowhere near as strong of a flush as the JBP.

Of note, I am in an aggressive routine of feeding and watering. Once I’ve transitioned to proper bonsai pots I’m guessing the growth may slow.


Here’s a thread chronicling my progress: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/pinus-contorta-var-murrayana-progression.26770/

Agreed, my routine is aggressive with fertiliser and water. The collected trees are in larger grow boxes or Andersen flats as well. I have also observed a difference in the strength of the second flush versus JBP. But then to be fair the first flush is not as strong as JBP either. The JBP is very vigorous under the same regimen.

 

[Tycoss]

These haven’t been hugely strong flushes of growth but there are definitely two distinct periods of bud swell, candle push, and needle growth. It’s nowhere near as strong of a flush as the JBP.

Of note, I am in an aggressive routine of feeding and watering. Once I’ve transitioned to proper bonsai pots I’m guessing the growth may slow.


Here’s a thread chronicling my progress: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/pinus-contorta-var-murrayana-progression.26770/

I saw a pine last summer that has a similar trunkline to what you are trying to achieve, I think. Hard to see in my crap iPhone photo, but they do exist in the wild.

 

[parhamr]

@Tycoss nice! I’ve seen some like that but nothing as picturesque as what you found. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Tycoss]

All four trees appear to be alive and pushing new growth. All budding back on to fairly old wood as well. They were watered and fertilized fairly heavily last year. That seems to have helped

 

[Tycoss]

I uncovered the base on my largest one. It actually had rather attractive nebari and flare compared to a lot of collected lodgepole from the area

 

[Tycoss]

And an image of net growth resulting from backbuds

 

[Vance Wood]

I wish I could get them again. I used to harvest them when I lived in California in the early 60's. They remind me of Mugo Pine, and I bet you could treat them the same way.

 

[August44]

Good post here. How important is it that one collects when new growth is pushing verses when dormant? Any pictures of a tree that is pushing new growth and ready for collection. Help appreciated. Peter

 

[Tycoss]

Good post here. How important is it that one collects when new growth is pushing verses when dormant? Any pictures of a tree that is pushing new growth and ready for collection. Help appreciated. Peter

These actually were collected before the trees broke dormancy last year. I’m just updating on how the trees have responded to what I’ve done in the year following collection. I didn’t want to be that guy that asks for advice and then never updates on how it actually worked out. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Tycoss]

I wish I could get them again. I used to harvest them when I lived in California in the early 60's. They remind me of Mugo Pine, and I bet you could treat them the same way.

I may try some of the techniques you have outlined for mugo pines on some of these. If I lived anywhere near you, I’d send you a couple. There are lots and they don’t seem real hard to collect.

 

[parhamr]

Here’s my second Lodgepole. It’s from permit-collected nursery stock I purchased in 2016. The trunk diameter is just over an inch and its vigor had been a bit lacking from subpar soil (sandy clay).

I repotted it in 2018 and saw pretty quick improvements. Its soil is pretty coarse and only two inches deep. This one has been a good test for the species’ range of tolerance for soil, moderate wire, and tolerance of absolutely full sun.

This year’s backbudding has looked similar to what you’re getting, @Tycoss.