Collected Bald Cypress

[markyscott]

Will do. Currently I am starting a collection. I have a few trees that might be worth working on in 5 years, as they are all newl collected. I'm trying out with some natives that grow around my house ( red maple, black cherry, dogwood), and I will be getting some nursery stock to play around with as well.... I just need to find a place to get the correct ingredients to make good soil... All I can seem to find around here is regular topsoil...

BC will make a nice add to you collection. I have several,that I've collected and they're one of my favorite trees to grow here in Houston. I'm sure they'll grow in Ohio - I think I've seen them planted as landscape trees in Columbus. But Don Blackmond sometimes posts here and can tell you more about winter protection in northern climates. Our winter in Houston feels strangely like summer.

As for the soil, there are several other Ohioans who post here - maybe they can give you some suggestions. Or perhaps you can get together and split a pallet.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Nice sequence, thanks for sharing. Especially like the, "camera in one hand, chopsticks in the other" shot!
Good luck and good growing!

That takes special training. Don't recommend you do that at home - really easy to hurt yourself.

S

 

[GrimLore]

That takes special training.

Nice Pictorial and thank you for taking the time!

Grimmy

 

[Eric Group]

Marky- you don't think you maybe went too hard on this one? I treated one pretty similar last year and it kicked the bucket on me... Small sample size obviously but the guys I know who collect often have a few fatalities from time to time as well... Have you had good success when removing so much of the roots at one time?

 

[markyscott]

Marky- you don't think you maybe went too hard on this one? I treated one pretty similar last year and it kicked the bucket on me... Small sample size obviously but the guys I know who collect often have a few fatalities from time to time as well... Have you had good success when removing so much of the roots at one time?

Hi Eric. I think it will be just fine. There are few guarantees life, but I haven't lost any BC yet. There's always a first, but I feel pretty confident it will be OK. They are a strong species and can generally tolerate bare root repotting without a problem.

Thanks

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Mark,

that was very educational, and hopefully, you will show in leaf.
Great boxes, very tidy/efficient !!!

Any advice on cuttings or airlayers for the swamp cypress?
We have a neglected one here and it's time to produce some young ones.
Strangely enough, this one from Louisiana, does not need winter.
It is self dormant and gives no problems, just neglected for years.
Thanks for any help.
Good Day
Anthony

Hi Anthony. I've never tried to strike cuttings from bald cypress. They are abundantly plentiful here from seedlings to landscape trees to collected ones. So I've never felt the need - perhaps someone else has some experience propagating Bald Cypress.

Thanks. Scott

 

[rockm]

wh

If it's the one I'm thinking of, I've seen his southern live oak thread and have followed it with interest. Outside of California, oaks are underutilized as bonsai. I've seen few southern live oak, for example, in exhibition or in private collection. But they are such a striking tree in nature and adapt so well to bonsai culture, that it would be a shame to not try at least one.

Scott

That looks to be a nice live oak. Do a separate post on it. This species needs more attention as it makes EXCELLENT bonsai once it's established in a container.

Yours has a nice trunk size and some good movement in it too. If you collected it near you in Houston it is most likely a hybrid of some kind of "southern" live oak (quercus virginiana) and escarpment live oak (quercus fusiformis). The two are sometimes classified as separate species. Fusiformis is an upland, more cold hardy more upright version of the more southern species, which is common closer to the Gulf coast over into Florida and up along the eastern seaboard into Va.
https://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=2088

The closer you get to the Gulf Coast in Texas, the more "southern" the live oaks become. The further north you move, up towards Dallas and in to Oklahoma, the more "fusiformis" the species. They interbreed pretty readily, though.

Structurally (and you probably know this) the live oaks from Austin, up to Dallas into East Texas and east along the La. border don't really look like the live oaks along the coast. The inland, northern trees tend to more rugged more upright that the multistemmed spreaders along the coast.

http://www.tarleton.edu/departments/range/Grasslands/Tallgrass Savanna/tallgrasssavana.html

Folks unfamiliar with the species will tend to push you to make your tree into their version of what a live oak is. They will want you to cut the trunk low, use several leaders an make it spread, or they will tell you not "to style an oak like a pine." Avoid such advice, it comes mostly from people who don't understand what they're looking at. You don't get much movement in the lower third of larger trunks like this. Use it.

 

[markyscott]

wh
That looks to be a nice live oak. Do a separate post on it. This species needs more attention as it makes EXCELLENT bonsai once it's established in a container.

Yours has a nice trunk size and some good movement in it too. If you collected it near you in Houston it is most likely a hybrid of some kind of "southern" live oak (quercus virginiana) and escarpment live oak (quercus fusiformis). The two are sometimes classified as separate species. Fusiformis is an upland, more cold hardy more upright version of the more southern species, which is common closer to the Gulf coast over into Florida and up along the eastern seaboard into Va.
https://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=2088

The closer you get to the Gulf Coast in Texas, the more "southern" the live oaks become. The further north you move, up towards Dallas and in to Oklahoma, the more "fusiformis" the species. They interbreed pretty readily, though.

Structurally (and you probably know this) the live oaks from Austin, up to Dallas into East Texas and east along the La. border don't really look like the live oaks along the coast. The inland, northern trees tend to more rugged more upright that the multistemmed spreaders along the coast.

http://www.tarleton.edu/departments/range/Grasslands/Tallgrass Savanna/tallgrasssavana.html

Folks unfamiliar with the species will tend to push you to make your tree into their version of what a live oak is. They will want you to cut the trunk low, use several leaders an make it spread, or they will tell you not "to style an oak like a pine." Avoid such advice, it comes mostly from people who don't understand what they're looking at. You don't get much movement in the lower third of larger trunks like this. Use it.

Thanks rockm - I agree with all your points - they're a great native species that adapts well to bonsai culture. In terms of natives here in Texas, we are maple poor, but oak rich - we have over 40 native oak species, but only 5 native maples (probably the best of them for bonsai is the Red Maple, and it's not all that great). We all get our inspiration from the trees around us and Live Oak has a rich variety of habit in my area. That one was collected along the Pearl River in NE Louisiana - I bought it from the collector because, like the BC, it is not easy to find one with movement. Thanks very much for the references and I'll do a follow up on a separate thread on the Live Oak.

S

 

[rockm]

If it's from over that way, it's a "proper" southern live oak then.

FWIW, my folks live halfway between Dallas and Shreveport in the "piney woods." The oaks (live, willow, blackjack, blue and a dozen other species) in that area of pine savannah and swamps are spectacular. They're also Underused and underappreciated as bonsai material.

 

[wireme]

Now let drill four holes for the wire. Test fit the tree first you want to position the holes between the larger roots so you can secure the tree. Cut two lengths of wire and feed the through the holes. I used 2.5 mm wire for this tree.

View attachment 94537 View attachment 94538 View attachment 94539

Grow box is ready.

View attachment 94540

Scott

Nice drill!
I'm really impressed by the performance of the 20v dewalts, I no longer build my boxes with a hammer and chainsaw!Cool tree too, thanks for sharing.

 

[markyscott]

Nice drill!
I'm really impressed by the performance of the 20v dewalts, I no longer build my boxes with a hammer and chainsaw!View attachment 95502Cool tree too, thanks for sharing.

Too funny - I have the same set of tools. Power tools are required when you're working with live oaks - they don't call it hard wood for nothing. Took me about 5 minutes to collect that BC with the sawzall.

But what's all that white stuff on the ground?

S

 

[wireme]

Too funny - I have the same set of tools. Power tools are required when you're working with live oaks - they don't call it hard wood for nothing. Took me about 5 minutes to collect that BC with the sawzall.

But what's all that white stuff on the ground?

S

It's this crazy thing that happens here, frozen water just falls from the sky, I know it seems unlikely but it really happens.

 

[markyscott]

It's this crazy thing that happens here, frozen water just falls from the sky, I know it seems unlikely but it really happens.

Frozen? Like in the freezer? Weird.

S

 

[rockm]

Too funny - I have the same set of tools. Power tools are required when you're working with live oaks - they don't call it hard wood for nothing. Took me about 5 minutes to collect that BC with the sawzall.

But what's all that white stuff on the ground?

S

The U.S.S. Constitution "Old Ironsides" in Boston Harbor is made from Southern Live Oak. The wood's durability gave it it's nickname.

Ran across this link on Live Oak recently that has a lot of info in it.
http://www.warnell.uga.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Live-Oak-Keynote-pub.pdf

 

[markyscott]

Bald Cypress are a resilient species. Great to have a few on your bench. I like the movement and taper on this one.

 

[markyscott]

But I'm still trying to figure out how to build ramification on these darn things. So I have a question for you BC gurus out there. Consider this shoot:



If I cut it at "1", will it reliably bud back? Or do you have to cut it past the node - as in "2"? I'm thinking it must be "2", but then how do you deal with the long neck or ensure that you have a node close to the branch?

 

[Zach Smith]

But I'm still trying to figure out how to build ramification on these darn things. So I have a question for you BC gurus out there. Consider this shoot:

View attachment 99162

If I cut it at "1", will it reliably bud back? Or do you have to cut it past the node - as in "2"? I'm thinking it must be "2", but then how do you deal with the long neck or ensure that you have a node close to the branch?

You've got the cart way before the horse. You absolutely leave that shoot alone except for putting some movement in with wire whenever you feel it's safe to do so. Then let it grow and get thicker. You don't need to worry about internodal length. BC produce buds wherever they want, more or less, so your primary job is to get heft in that branch not worry about where the fronds appear now. You'll be building ramification two or three years down the road, once that branch is thick enough. Not before then.

Zach

 

[markyscott]

You've got the cart way before the horse. You absolutely leave that shoot alone except for putting some movement in with wire whenever you feel it's safe to do so. Then let it grow and get thicker. You don't need to worry about internodal length. BC produce buds wherever they want, more or less, so your primary job is to get heft in that branch not worry about where the fronds appear now. You'll be building ramification two or three years down the road, once that branch is thick enough. Not before then.

Zach

Hi Zach -

I really appreciate the response, but in my haste, I think I explained myself very poorly. Rest assured, I have no intention of cutting that shoot now. Let me see if I can do a better job. Here's what got me wondering. Here's a branch I cut back to the profile in red over the winter.



The label "1" indicates the original branch I cut back to - it was probably a two year old branch when I cut back. The label "2" indicates the growth I got last season before I cut back during dormancy. What I was hoping for was this:



... ramification on "2". What I got instead was this:



Nothing on "2" and ramification on "1". Of course, it's still early in the season and I might get some budding on "2". But it's looking likely that last years growth won't bud and I'll have to start building the branch back from "1". Not a big deal - I've only lost a year of development. But it did this on many, but not all of the branches I cut back last season. So it got me wondering if I had cut back too close, below the node and that's why it didn't bud back where I had intended. Hence my previous question. Have you seen this before? From what I understand from your response it is not likely caused by cutting back below the node. Any other thoughts?

BTW - we met briefly collecting water elms last fall. It was very nice to meet you.

 

[Zach Smith]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Not sure why that branch wouldn't have budded all over, usually they do. When I get a fail, and it does happen, I just let the branch grow on out the way it wants to and then resume my attempt to control it in the next season. BC are so malleable it's easy to recover from a disappointment. I'd say let it do its thing and see what happens. There's always next year, in the worst case scenario.

It was good meeting you, too. I had pretty good success with the water-elms I brought home, not as good as July sessions but that wasn't an option last year.

Zach

 

[aframe]

But I'm still trying to figure out how to build ramification on these darn things. So I have a question for you BC gurus out there. Consider this shoot:

View attachment 99162

If I cut it at "1", will it reliably bud back? Or do you have to cut it past the node - as in "2"? I'm thinking it must be "2", but then how do you deal with the long neck or ensure that you have a node close to the branch?

Hi Scott,
I can pinch soft wood or new growth during the growth season and reliably get ramification. I also prune into hardwood on vigorous branches and reliably the BC will push 2-5 new buds at and around the cut site. Many apical shoots will have small buds popping along the shoot - you can go ahead and pinch back to those buds and they will take off. However, I stopped trying to control the growth when the tree was in a grow pot because the growth was so vigorous and coarse. I found it much more productive to let the tree bud out all over the place and let those shoots elongate and grow through the season. Obviously you can slow or remove growth as needed in select areas. I then make some branch selection in late winter and the tree will still push new growth from the trunk in the spring. I then eliminate branches that are too large when new growth is emerging from a useful area near by. At this point, when I have ample branching all over the trunk I put the tree into a bonsai training pot. The tree is still pushing new growth all over the place this spring, but it's finer growth and seems to more balanced over all. Now I am pinching for ramification and further reducing larger branches in favor of smaller branches higher on the trunk line.
Back when I began development, the tree took a year+ to establish, then the growth really took off. Your tree is in great substrate, I bet it will 'go-off' much earlier.
I did not use any cut paste.