Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
meh...
Collected a tamarack
- Thread starter Javaman4373
- Start date
Javaman4373
Shohin
Yes, just collected last Friday. OK on letting it grow unmolested through 2021. I do plan to treat it for borers though.
Javaman4373
Shohin
I borrowed a copy of Nick Lenz's book through our local library and it explains how a tamarack in a bog can die at the base as the bog rises and put out new roots near the surface. That explains the structure of the larger tamarack I collected in this thread. I now have a question. The base of the tree has an area where the old dead trunk is exposed and there is a dome shaped area of callous around it. See post #14, photo titled back base. Opposite this there are large roots emerging. I had the thought that I could do a partial air layer at that site and stimulate root growth that would be on the same plane as those on the opposite side. I think I would use plastic to create a partial cover, score the callous to expose some cambium, pack the area with live sphagnum from the bog and keep it quite wet. Do you think that would work? Otherwise I am planning to let that tree grow undisturbed for the 2021 season.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Update: Both tamaracks are growing well in their grow boxes. I put a little wires on early this spring. Otherwise I am letting them grow this season. I spend time thinking of a plan for them next spring. On the smaller one, potted over a rock, I think a good plan will be to kill the trunk part way up, convert that to dead wood, and train a new leader.
On the larger one, I am thinking of modeling after this dead pear tree (illustrated below). This tree had been struck by lightning and was alive for many years since we bought the farm in 1996. So I envision cutting off the top large branch on the big tamarack, and making the remaining trunk dead wood down to the second large branch from the base. An alternative is doing the same thing and making it shorter and only retaining the lowest large branch. Lots of time to think about it. Sorry, it is a bit hard to see the middle branch. I need a white back ground.
On the larger one, I am thinking of modeling after this dead pear tree (illustrated below). This tree had been struck by lightning and was alive for many years since we bought the farm in 1996. So I envision cutting off the top large branch on the big tamarack, and making the remaining trunk dead wood down to the second large branch from the base. An alternative is doing the same thing and making it shorter and only retaining the lowest large branch. Lots of time to think about it. Sorry, it is a bit hard to see the middle branch. I need a white back ground.
Attachments
Javaman4373
Shohin
Javaman4373
Shohin
I lack patience that is clear. I got to thinking no matter what plan I have for styling the larger tamarack, I was going to remove the apex and convert the top of the trunk to dead wood. This is how many of the tamaracks are in the bog-dead tops. Thinking that when I collected this tree, I included a lot of roots, so it should not need that apex to promote root growth, I went ahead and removed it. Now I should leave it alone and let it have a second blush of foliage growth.
Attachments
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,651
- USDA Zone
- 5b
Patience grasshopper.
Let them continue to recover. Go get a couple cheap junipers to work on this summer. That will give you something to do.
Your plans sound fine, just wait and let them recover.
Let them continue to recover. Go get a couple cheap junipers to work on this summer. That will give you something to do.
Your plans sound fine, just wait and let them recover.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Javaman4373
Shohin
August update on the first tamarack of this thread. It is growing happily (a second flush in progress) and the new leader has thickened some and started some new branches above the chop. Looking ahead to next year, I would like to chop the tree to shorten it and start a new leader. There is a problem area in the trunk where there is a gap with no significant branches. Would it help stimulate growth of those branches to do a chop and new leader or better to let it grow wild next summer too?
Attachments
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
reminds me of my eastern hemlock (im sure youre familiar, theyre in the northeast) yamadori
but i havent done much at all to it, to let it fill out!!
how does your tree do in this hot weather?
but i havent done much at all to it, to let it fill out!!
how does your tree do in this hot weather?
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
So, use standard trimming procedures of tip pruning to force new inner growth. Do all the tips that are as long as you want them to be. Keep doing it until it obeys.
Javaman4373
Shohin
The trees seem fine as long as I keep them watered well.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Update on the big Tam one year later. I am having a problem deciding on a long term development plan for styling this tree. I see three main possibilities: 1. continue to develop the foliage with the basic structure it has now. That is with the dead wood top and two main branches, the lower one reaching up to a high apex. 2. Remove the vertical part of the lower branch. and 3. shorten the whole tree by removing the upper branch, shortening the dead wood down to about where the upper branch was, and developing the lower branch as the new tree with an vertical apex. Not sure you can follow this to offer opinions. Attached is a recent photo.
Attachments
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,651
- USDA Zone
- 5b
Option 1, or 2 not 3.
Or option 4, keep all the branches, but get rid of that upright from the first branch. Keep the long deadwood trunk, keep the existing branches, get rid of the somewhat out of place vertical off the first branch. Tightening up the foliage of the branches will help. Carving the deadwood to something more jagged might help. Be careful with the carving, better to let it rot slowly than carve clumsy making it look amateurish. The "Si Dao" method, just pulling a few wood fibers at a time with a pliers might be better than using a power tool. You don't want to leave obvious tool marks. Leaving deadwood too long is MUCH BETTER than shortening the deadwood too much. You can always go back later and shorten the deadwood. Start by leaving the deadwood as long as possible. Years later you can shorten deadwood.
If this tree were mine, I would repot - vertical is not vertical enough, straighten the potting angle so the main trunk is exactly vertical. Then if you keep the upright on the first branch, wire the upright to be parallel, or exactly vertical.
And if it were mine, I would work on compacting all the foliage much more. All the secondary branching is too long. Your early summer pruning should have shortened all the new branches to just a few new needles. Repeat this tight pruning for a couple years. The whole tree will tighten up. Read up on Larch pruning, you might not be able to prune twice a season, you might need to prune back to a bud. But this tree needs foliage compacting.
All in all I want to encourage you, this is a nice tree, as good or better than anything I've created lately. So please don't view my comments as being harsh or negative.
All options are possibilities. I would go with my 4th option.
Or option 4, keep all the branches, but get rid of that upright from the first branch. Keep the long deadwood trunk, keep the existing branches, get rid of the somewhat out of place vertical off the first branch. Tightening up the foliage of the branches will help. Carving the deadwood to something more jagged might help. Be careful with the carving, better to let it rot slowly than carve clumsy making it look amateurish. The "Si Dao" method, just pulling a few wood fibers at a time with a pliers might be better than using a power tool. You don't want to leave obvious tool marks. Leaving deadwood too long is MUCH BETTER than shortening the deadwood too much. You can always go back later and shorten the deadwood. Start by leaving the deadwood as long as possible. Years later you can shorten deadwood.
If this tree were mine, I would repot - vertical is not vertical enough, straighten the potting angle so the main trunk is exactly vertical. Then if you keep the upright on the first branch, wire the upright to be parallel, or exactly vertical.
And if it were mine, I would work on compacting all the foliage much more. All the secondary branching is too long. Your early summer pruning should have shortened all the new branches to just a few new needles. Repeat this tight pruning for a couple years. The whole tree will tighten up. Read up on Larch pruning, you might not be able to prune twice a season, you might need to prune back to a bud. But this tree needs foliage compacting.
All in all I want to encourage you, this is a nice tree, as good or better than anything I've created lately. So please don't view my comments as being harsh or negative.
All options are possibilities. I would go with my 4th option.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Thank you Leo for your comments. I think your option 4 is my option 2. That is to remove the vertical stem coming off the lower branch. I have been looking at that branch all summer and not liking it, but not confident enough to decide I should remove it. The tree was collected in the fall of 2020 and has been in that wooden grow box for two growing seasons now. I have been thinking about putting it in a pot in the spring, when I can best reduce the roots to fit. Some of the roots were quite long with tuffs of feeder roots near the end. In the bog, this tree had a tall dead spike trunk that I had to cut to get it into my vehicle. A third top branch was removed after that and the current dead apex shortened to what you see now.
I planned on doing some pruning in the early spring to tighten up the foliage. I have pinched off some of the new growth off and on over the summer, particularly the ones shooting up vertically. I did notice when trying to get a photo today that it was leaning a bit and the trunk has a slight curve. The planting angle can be fixed at the time of repotting. I should get my wife to help me set it up on a turn table and get some better photos of it.
So doing option 2/4, the tallest part of the tree will be the dead wood original trunk and it will have two heavy branches, about 90 degrees from each other that put out fairly horizontal pads of foliage.
As far as pots go, I think an unglazed circular pot of about 15 inches in diameter 5 inches deep should work well. The inside dimensions of the grow box are 15.5 x 21.5 x 5. The tree is 47 inches tall as currently planted.
I planned on doing some pruning in the early spring to tighten up the foliage. I have pinched off some of the new growth off and on over the summer, particularly the ones shooting up vertically. I did notice when trying to get a photo today that it was leaning a bit and the trunk has a slight curve. The planting angle can be fixed at the time of repotting. I should get my wife to help me set it up on a turn table and get some better photos of it.
So doing option 2/4, the tallest part of the tree will be the dead wood original trunk and it will have two heavy branches, about 90 degrees from each other that put out fairly horizontal pads of foliage.
As far as pots go, I think an unglazed circular pot of about 15 inches in diameter 5 inches deep should work well. The inside dimensions of the grow box are 15.5 x 21.5 x 5. The tree is 47 inches tall as currently planted.
Javaman4373
Shohin
One more option Leo. I am thinking of making that verticle stem off the first branch dead wood first and seeing how that looks. I can always remove it If I don't like it.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Here is an update on the larger tamarack I collected. Shown are 3 angles. As you can see, that upright branch is now gone. I would like to eventually get rid of the ugly large root above the soil surface. At this time I am not sure how much the tree is dependent on that root, so I will take a look at it when I go to repot the tree. I did repot one tamarack this spring and it set it back substantially as far as pushing the buds out, but it is still alive-just retarded.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Update on the tamarack collected in post one of this thread. That one had the leader chopped shortly after collection. It has a problem with the middle section with out branches, especially to the left (photo Tam One c). I was considering trying a graft to add a branch at that area, but now there is a bud starting a branch there. I also contemplated another chop and making a new leader about 2 inches above the first chop to introduce more taper (photo Tam one e). The top of the tree looks interesting to me and, if it were easier to air layer these larix, I would consider that. Any opinions on where to go with this tree?
Attachments
Javaman4373
Shohin
I need a plan for the tamarack I collected in post 14 and updated in post 37. It is doing fine in its grow box, but it has two large ugly roots I would like to get rid of eventually. I repotted one tamarack this spring just as the buds started to slightly swell and it has still not pushed the buds out. The cambium is still green, so I assume it hasn't died, but it sure hated the root work. When growing in a bog, the tamaracks seem able to generate new roots at the current water level and older buried roots die back. I have found though that tamaracks do not air or ground layer well. My efforts at that have not worked. One thought I have is I could put the whole tree into a pool. I have several spring fed pools in the landscape. Maybe in a bog like environment, it would generate enough new roots to let me cut off those undesirable ones without killing the tree. Any thoughts. Or could you sever one root at a time and over several seasons, chop those off with the tree left in place in the grow box? Photo of the roots.
LeatherTree23
Yamadori
I’m curious. Are you planning g to style the tree as a alpine conifer (branches down to show age with pads of needles) or as a deciduous tree with fine ramification (branches up)? If you’re looking for alpine style, what if you wire the branch marked in red down to fill in the empty spot on the trunk?
Im unfamiliar with how larch grow in the bog environment but their growth habits there could provide inspiration.
Similar threads
