Checking for air-layer roots with pot method

[Cable]

On March 30th, I air layered this elm (there's a debate whether or not it is a cork-bark elm).



As it got hot, I put moss on top of it to hold in a little more moisture. Last weekend I was showing someone how there was bonsai soil in there and I noticed a couple of nice looking roots right on the surface. I think some nice nebari starting!

Anyway, I think this might be ready to separate. In @Bonsai Nut's air layer thread, he talks about separating one in 33 days. I also read 6 weeks and Ryan Neil talks about 90 days. This meets all of those metrics.

The thing is, how do I safely check if it is ready? This is the first time I've done it with the pot method. Usually I just open the plastic and look.

Do I poke around with a chopstick? Untape the pot and try to peek in? Take the pot completely off?

I'm worried if I do one of those last two and it isn't ready then I will end up hurting it.

I've also toyed with the idea of just leaving it alone until spring and repotting then but I feel like a year is a long time to leave it in this state. Also, I think it was @sorce who once overwintered one and some of the roots turned black and died. That was in sphagnum, though.

On a related note, my plan is for the separated piece to be a shohin. I want to leave it as is for now and put it into a bonsai pot in the spring (I have a potter making one specifically for this tree and it isn't ready yet).

 

[cbroad]

If you did it March 30th, I bet you have some decent roots. I did a winged elm air layer and I think it took a month or a month and a half from first cut to separation; but don't know much about the unique elms...

You could always just wait for roots to come out of the bottom of the pot. It'll probably be any day now

 

[Cable]

You could always just wait for roots to come out of the bottom of the pot. It'll probably be any day now

None poking out the bottom yet

 

[cmeg1]

Since in a pot I would excavate with a chopstick,I do that all the time.As long as not more than twoo inches deep I guess

 

[Shima]

You can't go by how long it takes anyone else. Stick a chop stick in and move it around a bit. If you can't, it's ready. And yes, look for roots out the bottom. And squeeze the pot, to see if it's full. And wait 'till the roots turn from white and delicate to light brown and stronger.

 

[Cable]

Ok, apparently I'm the world's worst at air layers. The two I tried last year both failed. While this one hasn't entirely failed, it isn't a raging success, either!

I poked around with a chopstick and the two surface roots I saw were two of only three roots and all coming out of the same side of the trunk. :-(

 

[0soyoung]

Undo whatever is holding the pot up and slide it (the pot) down the stem. See what is going on (put it all back if necessary).

btw, in my cool climate (daily high temperature is rarely above 70F) it takes until Aug/Sep to have enough adventitious roots to be a harvestable layer.

 

[Cable]

Undo whatever is holding the pot up and slide it (the pot) down the stem. See what is going on (put it all back if necessary).

btw, in my cool climate (daily high temperature is rarely above 70F) it takes until Aug/Sep to have enough adventitious roots to be a harvestable layer.

Sadly I can't do that because the pot is sitting on a knob on the trunk and there are branches not far under it. Below are some pics of what I see. You might be onto something, though. It has been so damn cold lately that maybe it just hasn't been warm enough to throw roots?

Also when taking the pics I noticed a fourth root but still all on one side.

 

[Shima]

Sadly I can't do that because the pot is sitting on a knob on the trunk and there are branches not far under it. Below are some pics of what I see. You might be onto something, though. It has been so damn cold lately that maybe it just hasn't been warm enough to throw roots?

Also when taking the pics I noticed a fourth root but still all on one side.

View attachment 249547View attachment 249548View attachment 249549View attachment 249550View attachment 249551

Quickly...cover those exposed roots with moss mixed with medium or just straight moss. Looks like the soil was never above the cut. And the medium is not fine enough.

 

[Shima]

slide it (the pot) down the stem

Um, professor, don't you think this would break tender white roots?

 

[Shibui]

I have seen layers grow happily with less roots than that but there doesn't seem to be any point testing this one out by removing it now. Leave it for another month or so for the existing roots to get stronger and I suspect that more will emerge given a bit more time.
I have often seen roots only one side of layers, especially if there's a strong branch just above the layer site. A couple of years after removing the layer there is usually roots right round. It just takes some time.

 

[0soyoung]

Um, professor, don't you think this would break tender white roots?

With a pot, like this arrangement, I use a bonsai substrate. If it is populated, it hangs together (one might need to run a blade of some sort around the perimeter to get it to budge). If not, it is just loose substrate particles in which case, one might break the two or three little rootlets - in the net for the season it doesn't matter much. Of course, there can be degrees of this between these two extremes.

The situation is similar with sphagnum, but it tends to hang together where is packed around the stem, regardless. One then must carefully split the blob, but the story is similar, IMHO.

I should also note that when using my substrate instead of sphagnum, the new roots are 'hardened' roots with only white tips. Roots in sphagnum are all fragile white things that must be grown in substrate for a while to 'harden'.

 

[Cable]

Quickly...cover those exposed roots with moss mixed with medium or just straight moss. Looks like the soil was never above the cut. And the medium is not fine enough.

They are covered with moss. And I said I dug down with a chopstick to show these. The cut is below the soil level. But two of the roots were higher than the cut site.

 

[Shima]

They are covered with moss. And I said I dug down with a chopstick to show these. The cut is below the soil level. But two of the roots were higher than the cut site.

Oops, sorry. I missed that.

 

[Shima]

With a pot, like this arrangement, I use a bonsai substrate. If it is populated, it hangs together (one might need to run a blade of some sort around the perimeter to get it to budge). If not, it is just loose substrate particles in which case, one might break the two or three little rootlets - in the net for the season it doesn't matter much. Of course, there can be degrees of this between these two extremes.

The situation is similar with sphagnum, but it tends to hang together where is packed around the stem, regardless. One then must carefully split the blob, but the story is similar, IMHO.

I should also note that when using my substrate instead of sphagnum, the new roots are 'hardened' roots with only white tips. Roots in sphagnum are all fragile white things that must be grown in substrate for a while to 'harden'.

Ah so

 

[Cable]

I'm really thinking 0so has it on this one and that it has just been too cold. I bet if I wait a couple of weeks now that it has finally warmed up that I'll get lots of roots. There's no rush.

 

[Saddler]

I’ve done probably a hundred air layers and the conclusion I’ve come to is burying the cut as deep as possible gives the most reliable results. I usually put the top cut flush with the bottom of the pot and wrap plastic around the cut to protect it. I often get roots not only just above the cut, but sometimes more up to the surface of the soil. The best part of this method though is the removal of the air layer. I cut it off flush with the bottom of the pot and I never have to deal with that nub of wood again. I can put it into the bottom of a pot so the roots grow out flat.

I can’t help but feel your upper cut being so close to the surface isn’t doing you any favours. It only takes one day that it dries out a little too much and any fine new roots will die. By being in the bottom my roots can go a couple days without being watered if need be. Personally I would fill that pot to the brim and a bit more using the moss to stop it from being washed away when watering. You can see where the drainage holes were in my roots. That’s how sensitive the air layers are to drying out. Now I put plastic in the bottom of the pot to cover the drainage holes and snip the plastic to let the water drain out.