Cascade? Not so much?

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I like this tree. I like the progress you have made. I like it enough to comment. Understand I am not telling you what to do. I'm just proposing 2 options.

To my eye, this tree seems skitzophrenic, Top of the tree is an upright, the first branch is a cascade. The tension between the two directions is somewhat static, so the eye gets stuck. Not moving down, not moving up.

The trunk slants to the right, the top needs to have movement toward the right. The top has too heavily backtracked to to the left, making for a "balanced" hence static movement. The top needs to have movement to the right. The reverse of branch movement to the left needs to be less than the movement to the right.

If it were mine, I would either make it an upright, in that I would eliminate the cascade branch, and make it more windswept to the right.

Or, my personal love of the challenge to do a good cascade, I would emphasize the cascade. Right now, the design is tepid, neither an upright nor a cascade. I would bring the apex down, way down, and to the right. I would extend the cascade branch and have it descend to nearly the level of the feet, or even to plunge below the level of the feet.

Either way, you have 2 nice trees in there, I would choose one or the other.

But even if you don't go for either option, I think the apex needs to move to the right more, to take the tree off balance, to introduce dynamic tension.

Just my thoughts, ponder them, if you like the ideas, great. Maybe other ideas will come to you.

 

[Hartinez]

This tree will always be a bit of a mess. Lots of inherent issues that my untrained eye didn’t see when I first acquired and styled it 3/4 years ago. My eye now sees lots of problems now. I will continue to style and attempt to improve it though through the years.

 

[Hartinez]

I like this tree. I like the progress you have made. I like it enough to comment. Understand I am not telling you what to do. I'm just proposing 2 options.

To my eye, this tree seems skitzophrenic, Top of the tree is an upright, the first branch is a cascade. The tension between the two directions is somewhat static, so the eye gets stuck. Not moving down, not moving up.

The trunk slants to the right, the top needs to have movement toward the right. The top has too heavily backtracked to to the left, making for a "balanced" hence static movement. The top needs to have movement to the right. The reverse of branch movement to the left needs to be less than the movement to the right.

If it were mine, I would either make it an upright, in that I would eliminate the cascade branch, and make it more windswept to the right.

Or, my personal love of the challenge to do a good cascade, I would emphasize the cascade. Right now, the design is tepid, neither an upright nor a cascade. I would bring the apex down, way down, and to the right. I would extend the cascade branch and have it descend to nearly the level of the feet, or even to plunge below the level of the feet.

Either way, you have 2 nice trees in there, I would choose one or the other.

But even if you don't go for either option, I think the apex needs to move to the right more, to take the tree off balance, to introduce dynamic tension.

Just my thoughts, ponder them, if you like the ideas, great. Maybe other ideas will come to you.

View attachment 320378

Hey Leo. I always welcome your comments and opinions. This is one of those trees I bought years ago when I was just buying up any cheap nursery stock I could. It’s developed more and more issues as time as moved on. At angles and at times the top and bottom work well together but it’s always a bit of a mess. I think the current styling though it needs a bit more refinement works for now. I should have been better at keeping up with trimming to encourage back budding and pad development. Everything got a little too long and leggy.

 

[Hartinez]

I like this tree. I like the progress you have made. I like it enough to comment. Understand I am not telling you what to do. I'm just proposing 2 options.

To my eye, this tree seems skitzophrenic, Top of the tree is an upright, the first branch is a cascade. The tension between the two directions is somewhat static, so the eye gets stuck. Not moving down, not moving up.

The trunk slants to the right, the top needs to have movement toward the right. The top has too heavily backtracked to to the left, making for a "balanced" hence static movement. The top needs to have movement to the right. The reverse of branch movement to the left needs to be less than the movement to the right.

If it were mine, I would either make it an upright, in that I would eliminate the cascade branch, and make it more windswept to the right.

Or, my personal love of the challenge to do a good cascade, I would emphasize the cascade. Right now, the design is tepid, neither an upright nor a cascade. I would bring the apex down, way down, and to the right. I would extend the cascade branch and have it descend to nearly the level of the feet, or even to plunge below the level of the feet.

Either way, you have 2 nice trees in there, I would choose one or the other.

But even if you don't go for either option, I think the apex needs to move to the right more, to take the tree off balance, to introduce dynamic tension.

Just my thoughts, ponder them, if you like the ideas, great. Maybe other ideas will come to you.

View attachment 320378

Here’s the tree at several different angles.

 

[Hartinez]

Any “pot heads” wanna suggest a specific shaped vessel for this tree? Is it deserving of a good pot?

 

[Japonicus]

Is it deserving of a good pot?

You took the time to do a nice job of wiring and styling it, documenting it...



...of course.

 

[Hartinez]

You took the time to do a nice job of wiring and styling it, documenting it...



...of course.

I feel like if I’m going to wire, I might as well do the best I can. And if I can make decent trees look good with quality wiring, I’d hope I can make good trees look great. There is just something about this tree that feels off. Always has. Some days I like it, some days I don’t. I can’t imagine either, what pot it should go in. Pot combinations is not my strong suit.

 

[doctorater]

I'm with @Leo in N E Illinois. It seems there's a good upright and a good cascade in here. Right now it's trying to be both and it pulls my eye in two directions at once.

 

[Hartinez]

I'm with @Leo in N E Illinois. It seems there's a good upright and a good cascade in here. Right now it's trying to be both and it pulls my eye in two directions at once.

Yeah I just need to pull the trigger on a direction. Ultimately the upper section is what I like more and I think eliminating 2 or 3 of those pads in the downward directed line will balance things out better.

 

[Hartinez]

I'm with @Leo in N E Illinois. It seems there's a good upright and a good cascade in here. Right now it's trying to be both and it pulls my eye in two directions at once.

It’s def not my best tree, but one of those that’s been with me a few years now, so I’d hate to give up on it at this point.

 

[doctorater]

Yeah I just need to pull the trigger on a direction. Ultimately the upper section is what I like more and I think eliminating 2 or 3 of those pads in the downward directed line will balance things out better.

Hard choice. In the earlier pictures I liked the cascade part better, but in the later pictures I think I like the upright part better. You can't go wrong, it's a win win!

 

[Hartinez]

Hard choice. In the earlier pictures I liked the cascade part better, but in the later pictures I think I like the upright part better. You can't go wrong, it's a win win!

I like that optimism!! I’ve got a few ideas. And I’m sure I’ll just go for it one day soon. Either way, this shot is just fun. This will never be a show stopper, but dam I enjoyed working out every tip of this tree.

 

[August44]

Everybody knows that I am new to this so will offer my take and get yelled at...I don't mind the cascade and the upright trees together like that. In looking at the last picture above, I do think the left side of the upright is a bit to heavy and symmetrical. Something needs to be removed or seriously moved. Also the upright seems to mimic the cascade in flow, so something needs to change that. Also, I would put that deadwood down at soil level or a bit lower. Riding up in the air like that does not look normal. I would not remove the cascade tree until I spent some more time and thought. I love what you have done! A lot of work and time spent. Good job!

Yelling is ok. Rock throwing is not!

 

[Hartinez]

Everybody knows that I am new to this so will offer my take and get yelled at...I don't mind the cascade and the upright trees together like that. In looking at the last picture above, I do think the left side of the upright is a bit to heavy and symmetrical. Something needs to be removed or seriously moved. Also the upright seems to mimic the cascade in flow, so something needs to change that. Also, I would put that deadwood down at soil level or a bit lower. Riding up in the air like that does not look normal. I would not remove the cascade tree until I spent some more time and thought.

Yelling is ok. Rock throwing is not!

How dare you Peter!! Coming in here with your opinion on my Bonsai!! I didn’t come here to talk Bonsai or have others give me there opinions!!!

 

[Hartinez]

Everybody knows that I am new to this so will offer my take and get yelled at...I don't mind the cascade and the upright trees together like that. In looking at the last picture above, I do think the left side of the upright is a bit to heavy and symmetrical. Something needs to be removed or seriously moved. Also the upright seems to mimic the cascade in flow, so something needs to change that. Also, I would put that deadwood down at soil level or a bit lower. Riding up in the air like that does not look normal. I would not remove the cascade tree until I spent some more time and thought. I love what you have done! A lot of work and time spent. Good job!

Yelling is ok. Rock throwing is not!

The floating nature of the base is what drives me the most crazy. It started as a much wider base and nebari but a portion of the trunk died or had already been dead and it slowly rotted out. In the process of cleaning it up it left me with this small amount of live wood that actually makes contact with the soil. That’s why I’ve got that weird aerial root off to the left there. Doesn’t seem to have a whole lot else supporting the foliage. I may actually put it in a pot that has that deadwood resting right on the lip.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Ooh, Ooh, Ooh! Next to last picture looks like great or at least better tree, not so much bare(uninspiring)trunk, great deadwood, great roots.

 

[Ruddigger]

Todd Schlafer just posted this tree on instagram, that reminded me of yours.

 

[Hartinez]

Todd Schlafer just posted this tree on instagram, that reminded me of yours.

I saw it too. Beautiful tree. Looks EXACTLY like mine....

 

[Hartinez]

This tree has never sat right with me. When I first styled it I was relatively early in my bonsai journey. I would do several things different now had I started with the same raw tree now. Quite frankly, this tree was on the chopping block and I was close to letting it go. I decided however to take a drastically different approach.

the deadwood was decently well done and really the best part of this tree. The top trunk line and low swinging branch have never jived well with each other. Especially when the foliage was thick. The nebari is non existent. The live vein makes contact with the soil in a very light and somewhat awkward way. A floating root and a very small section are what’s keeping this tree alive.

my goal was to be more literatiesque with this tree eliminating the entirety of that lower branch. Keeping it as a Jin would of created movement competing with the apex. A changes the viewing angle as well putting the apex almost directly above the points where the tree meets the substrate. The deadwood is more visible and contrasts and compliments the foliage. It swings out left but the big primary branch to the bottom right visually balances the two weights. This is all as I see it at least and maybe you all see something different??

the tree is still a bit awkward. I removed a ton of foliage but the roots were strong. The initial work was done about 2 weeks ago and I’ve got new tips all over with quite a bit of back budding as well. The apex needs work but should be good over time. Depending on the state it’s in next season, I’d like to put it in a more suitable round.

I’m much more happy with this tree now and we’ll see how it develops.

 

[Hartinez]

I should probably change the title to,

“literati? Or not so much?”