Can Chinese elms be 'encouraged' to backbud in a specific spot?

[Davidlpf]

Making a wound could cause new buds in the borders of the new healing tissue.
Here you can see how responded one of mine, some years ago


This one was completed beheaded, and sprout even more buds on the cut



The harder you cut it, more buds will appear in the wounds.

Greetings and good luck

 

[Soup Dragon]

Making a wound could cause new buds in the borders of the new healing tissue.
Here you can see how responded one of mine, some years ago
View attachment 289281

Great illustrative picture - thanks! Was that wound where a branch was cut off though? I think in that case there are a bunch of hormones concentrated in that area that keeps buds forming for years afterwards.

 

[Davidlpf]

Was that wound where a branch was cut off though?

Yes there were two branches growing together, and I cut one of them.

Cheers

 

[Soup Dragon]

Interrupting the flow of sap can stimulate dormant buds to grow. A single cut right down through the bark to the wood and across the branch/trunk is the usual recommendation. The cut temporarily interrupts the sap flow long enough to get buds started but will heal up without leaving any other sign and does not do any permanent damage. The buds should form on the downhill (root) side of any cut.
From experience this method does not always work. I eventually had to resort to grafting a branch on one of mine.

Well, I took your advice, and after 6 weeks look what's happening.



The cut I made is right in the center of the picture, and there's a bud forming right inside it.

Thank you!

 

[BobbyLane]

I've found that when an elm is really cranking out growth a good hard pruning will make them bud all over.
Giving you all kinds of new branch opportunities.

i do find it odd that grafting usually pops up before this tried and tested method. there is a saying that goes, let the tree tell you what it wants to do. not many understand it.

 

[BobbyLane]

Here are the photos that I took yesterday. You can see from the first photo that the lower two branches have gaps where I could really use some secondary branches. Despite many seasons of growth, no buds have ever appeared where I want them. That's why I was looking for alternative ideas.

You can see that I also pruned very hard yesterday. I am not afraid to do that with elms. In fact, this is my "practice tree". It is not much to look at, but I use it to try stuff out. Next up for this guy is a thread graft and a ground layer.

View attachment 289266View attachment 289270

it hasnt bud back closer to the trunk, because youve never cut it back hard enough.

this is a hard cut back on an elm
20190609_183844 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

20190609_183940 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[Soup Dragon]

it hasnt bud back closer to the trunk, because youve never cut it back hard enough.

Yes, this makes so much sense, and I know Chinese elms back bud furiously after a hard pruning. Your photos are extremely helpful in visualizing this process.

I was fishing for some tips on encouraging some more selective back budding however, say on a branch that is perfectly formed but just missing one key secondary branch. Rather than start again afresh, is it possible to stimulate budding in one particular area? It looks like Shibui's suggestion worked for that.

Thanks!

 

[BobbyLane]

you ever trunk chopped an elm, they send out buds from wherever they are cut, more consistently than most species.
this works on thick branches too, so in that regard, yes you can usually get a bud where you make the cut. if you want to keep your branches the way they are then yeh grafting might be for you.

 

[roberthu]

Also fulvic acid with the kelp works wonders as it transpirts the kelp directly into cell ions in as little as 4 hours as it is a low molecular weight humic substance which is excellant carrier of minerals and plant elements because it passes through cell membranes so easily.
5:2 ratio fulvic acid powder/kelp powder.
I get backbuds on 2” branches.
View attachment 288939View attachment 288940

Thank you for sharing this!

 

[RJG2]

Foliar sprays with kelp stops apically dominant growth and forces lateral branching / budding. Here is a short 1 minute video that explains uses for kelp:

Ian Hunter talked with Ryan Neil on the Asymmetry podcast about this too. I imagine it would increase your chances of getting more buds forming further back on your branches.

How often do people do kelp foliar spray to encourage budding? I have some with fulvic and humic acid, but have only used it occasionally with watering.

 

[cmeg1]

How often do people do kelp foliar spray to encourage budding? I have some with fulvic and humic acid, but have only used it occasionally with watering.

No more than one a week ...kelp will burn if used more!!!!!!!

 

[RJG2]

No more than one a week ...kelp will burn if used more!!!!!!!

Awesome; thanks for the heads up!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

this is a hard cut back on an elm

This is an even harder one You can see the buds already starting to pop!

 

[penumbra]

kelp will burn if used more!!!!!!!

Hard to believe because its NPK is so low, but I can tell you that this is true.

 

[cmeg1]

Hard to believe because its NPK is so low, but I can tell you that this is true.

I heard its the actual cytokinesis that has a by-product of heat(cell division)

 

[sorce]

it hasnt bud back closer to the trunk, because youve never cut it back hard enough.

this is a hard cut back on an elm
20190609_183844 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

20190609_183940 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Nice. And thanks for the before pictures.

I think it's important to note that without a healthy tree in the first place, a hard cut back can be no better than a death sentence.

Without seeing many before pics of the OP's tree....

I don't think it was knicking the branch that caused the budding, I think the tree actually got healthy.

All we've seen/heard of this OP tree is unhealthy and cut too much.

We have to remember that a tree that has been constantly "pinched" or cut is never going to bud hard, no matter how far the cut.

Not a fan of the lack of information in this thread that we are formulating information for.

Sorce

 

[BobbyLane]

Nice. And thanks for the before pictures.

I think it's important to note that without a healthy tree in the first place, a hard cut back can be no better than a death sentence.

Without seeing many before pics of the OP's tree....

I don't think it was knicking the branch that caused the budding, I think the tree actually got healthy.

All we've seen/heard of this OP tree is unhealthy and cut too much.

We have to remember that a tree that has been constantly "pinched" or cut is never going to bud hard, no matter how far the cut.

Not a fan of the lack of information in this thread that we are formulating information for.

Sorce

there's a lot of threads like that here. the opening poster poses a question, the thread gets beat to death and the op isnt seen for months and there's no updates. no acknowledgement as to whether the information provided was useful or not.
its bad forum etiquette, if there is such a thing.

 

[Soup Dragon]

there's a lot of threads like that here. the opening poster poses a question, the thread gets beat to death and the op isnt seen for months and there's no updates. no acknowledgement as to whether the information provided was useful or not.
its bad forum etiquette, if there is such a thing.

I don't like being accused of bad forum etiquette.

I posted a question, and got a lot of useful advice. I followed it, and it worked.

I followed up with an update - post #24 - that showed the new buds forming at the point where I 'wounded' the tree.

Question - Good Advice - Follow-up.

The conversation then carried on beyond that. I didn't "disappear". I did provide the "acknowledgement".

 

[BobbyLane]

I don't like being accused of bad forum etiquette.

I posted a question, and got a lot of useful advice. I followed it, and it worked.

I followed up with an update - post #24 - that showed the new buds forming at the point where I 'wounded' the tree.

Question - Good Advice - Follow-up.

The conversation then carried on beyond that. I didn't "disappear". I did provide the "acknowledgement".

i saw you did an update. not really directed to you personally mate, but in general.

 

[Soup Dragon]

I don't think it was knicking the branch that caused the budding, I think the tree actually got healthy.
All we've seen/heard of this OP tree is unhealthy and cut too much.

No, the tree is perfectly healthy. It is my 'experiment' tree, and takes a beating every year as I try things out, and bounces back every time.

As a matter of fact, this year I took off one of the main branches completely, as the two lowest branches were at the same height (ugly T-shape). I'm rebuilding that branch from scratch.

I'm certainly not scared to prune back hard - I do it all the time. In this thread though I asked a specific question about how to encourage an elm to bud at a specific spot in a mature branch. I got great help, and my question was answered.