Burka ban? Or secular commonsense?

[Wilson]

Here in la belle province of Quebec, our government passed a bill forbidding people to wear face coverings if using public services. Anyone who is going to a hospital, publis transit, government offices, must have an uncovered face. Many people have voiced outrage at what they call a racist, anti-islamic law, but is it? I know I have read on here people that would support such a bill, and maybe some who wouldn't. So I would enjoy to hear some opinions on our Bill 62.

 

[Vance Wood]

In order to live in a civilized society there has to be a bit of give and take. This should include the abandonment of the burka.

 

[just.wing.it]

It's common sense from my view.
Honestly, many cities already have laws banning masks, so.....make it illegal again, I guess.
That's all I'll say.

 

[M. Frary]

I don't mind them but.....
In a bank?
Going into a school?
No thanks. I think your new law is a good thing but...
It does inffinge on freedom of religion.
A kind of double edged sword.

 

[just.wing.it]

I want to say one more thing....god I have problem.....anyway...
Aside from the mask laws, and possible terrorists and such...

Why aren't the feminist groups (and others) out there protesting against the burka, when it is such an "in your face" form of female oppression?
I'm not being facetious, or trying to start a political fight, I have wondered this for a long time...
If someone can provide an answer or just a thought on that, I'd love it, thanks!

 

[Wilson]

I hear you Vance, our countries are melting pots, so newcomers need to melt a little. @M. Frary you are right on the infringement of religious freedom, but its reasonable. The kicker for some people is that our government also protects our Catholic heritage. It is an interesting story to watch unfold, as numerous western countries struggle with this.

 

[Wilson]

I want to say one more thing....god I have problem.....anyway...
Aside from the mask laws, and possible terrorists and such...

Why aren't the feminist groups (and others) out there protesting against the burka, when it is such an "in your face" form of female oppression?
I'm not being facetious, or trying to start a political fight, I have wondered this for a long time...
If someone can provide an answer or just a thought on that, I'd love it, thanks!

I know eh?!

 

[M. Frary]

Why aren't the feminist groups (and others) out there protesting against the burka, when it is such an "in your face" form of female oppression

Because these women don't believe they're being oppressed. It's a part of their religion. Like the bonnets Amish women wear.

 

[just.wing.it]

Because these women don't believe they're being oppressed. It's a part of their religion. Like the bonnets Amish women wear.

That's a good point Mike...
That still shouldn't stop the "various groups" from protesting it...
How many years went by here before women could vote? And during that time, how many women were OK with it because that was all they ever knew?
Coming into the modern secular world, that we have now, should include an education on women's rights, and equality....in my mind.
Forcing them to trash the religious garments of oppression may be a good way to "push the little birds out of the nest" so to speak....and show them what has changed since the 7th century....

 

[Wilson]

Ayaan Ali hirsi and Irshad Manji are two muslim women who are public figures who speak out about reform.

 

[sparklemotion]

Why do you assume that a woman who is wearing the burqa is oppressed?

As a feminist, I support the right of women to wear what they want. Plenty of Muslim women in the West don't want to wear burqas, so they don't.

All that burqa bans will do is alienate the women who wear them by choice (because their religious freedom is being trampled), or even further isolate the handful of women in the West who are forced into the burqa through domestic abuse and community pressure.

In a melting pot, all cultures take on some of the flavours of the others. But somehow, when "melting pot" is used as a justification for these sorts of attacks on specific religions, it's never the dominant (read:white) culture that needs to adapt.

 

[just.wing.it]

Ayaan Ali hirsi and Irshad Manji are two muslim women who are public figures who speak out about reform.

I'll have to look them up, Wilson, thanks.
I am familiar with Raheel Raza...she is a modern Muslim woman who is very brave, and heads up an Islamic Reformation movement, and has written good books like "How can you be a Muslim Feminist?"

She frequently has death threats made on her by fundamentalist Muslim's and other extremists...

 

[just.wing.it]

Why do you assume that a woman who is wearing the burqa is oppressed?

As a feminist, I support the right of women to wear what they want. Plenty of Muslim women in the West don't want to wear burqas, so they don't.

All that burqa bans will do is alienate the women who wear them by choice (because their religious freedom is being trampled), or even further isolate the handful of women in the West who are forced into the burqa through domestic abuse and community pressure.

In a melting pot, all cultures take on some of the flavours of the others. But somehow, when "melting pot" is used as a justification for these sorts of attacks on specific religions, it's never the dominant (read:white) culture that needs to adapt.

They are forced to wear it, that's different that the freedoms to pick out your own clothes.

 

[Wilson]

Why do you assume that a woman who is wearing the burqa is oppressed?

As a feminist, I support the right of women to wear what they want. Plenty of Muslim women in the West don't want to wear burqas, so they don't.

All that burqa bans will do is alienate the women who wear them by choice (because their religious freedom is being trampled), or even further isolate the handful of women in the West who are forced into the burqa through domestic abuse and community pressure.

In a melting pot, all cultures take on some of the flavours of the others. But somehow, when "melting pot" is used as a justification for these sorts of attacks on specific religions, it's never the dominant (read:white) culture that needs to adapt.

Just to clarify, it is not an outright ban. It says if someone is going to use government services their face can't be covered.

 

[Vance Wood]

Just to clarify, it is not an outright ban. It says if someone is going to use government services their face can't be covered.

Without being too strident let me add. Having your face covered is about the same as having your back side and bumpy bits exposed. Both are contrary to public decency and saftey. You can't run around naked in almost any culture without invoking the power of the law so why would it be racist to prohibit the public exhibition of---- hiding your face? This would go a long way in curbing the activities of Antifa and some of the other protest groups. Of course a law is dependent upon a government's ability and willingness to enforce it.

It seems that our government has become too timid and afraid of the PC left.

 

[A. Gorilla]

Why do you assume that a woman who is wearing the burqa is oppressed?

As a feminist, I support the right of women to wear what they want. Plenty of Muslim women in the West don't want to wear burqas, so they don't.

All that burqa bans will do is alienate the women who wear them by choice (because their religious freedom is being trampled), or even further isolate the handful of women in the West who are forced into the burqa through domestic abuse and community pressure.

In a melting pot, all cultures take on some of the flavours of the others. But somehow, when "melting pot" is used as a justification for these sorts of attacks on specific religions, it's never the dominant (read:white) culture that needs to adapt.

Kinda reminds me of my days being a lifeguard at the Ymca.

You'd think it'd be simple, right? Take a shower, wear a conventional swim suit, and let's keep things clean. Following the rules could be very straight forward.

One of the many goofs who came out of the woodwork. A woman wanted to breast feed in the pool. **IN** the pool.

No...how about get out of the pool and do that? It's not about your tit, it's about stuff getting the pool.

Then comes the maladaptive manipulation strategies. The hair splitting. The exceptions. The strawmen arguments.

What about this? And what about that? What about that person? And this person? And pee? And spit? And unwashed ass cracks? Are you anti-woman? Are you anti-breast feeding? This is natural. This is my right. etc etc.

Lady, if I see someone pissing in the pool, I'll stop him. When I see some guy about to rinse out his protein drink in the pool, I stop him. When people want to use the pool as their shower after the sauna I stop them. I try to stop and minimize all the goofy shit you motherf****s do to creatively defile my god**** pool, and this is one of them!!!! J*** F**** CH**** I've never had such a stressful job either before or after.

What's my point?

I don't even know.

Snowflakes everywhere. Even Muslims.

I know why old people die. They want to.

 

[sparklemotion]

They are forced to wear it, that's different that the freedoms to pick out your own clothes.

How do you know that any given woman in a burqa is "forced" to wear it?

Just to clarify, it is not an outright ban. It says if someone is going to use government services their face can't be covered.

That's a fair clarification. But look at it this way. Let's say that there's even one woman in Quebec who is oppressed to the point that she is forced to wear a burqa. Why would you want to cut off an oppressed woman from government services? If she can't go to a hospital, take the bus, apply for welfare, etc, how is she ever going to get out of that oppressive circumstance?

 

[Vance Wood]

I want to say one more thing....god I have problem.....anyway...
Aside from the mask laws, and possible terrorists and such...

Why aren't the feminist groups (and others) out there protesting against the burka, when it is such an "in your face" form of female oppression?
I'm not being facetious, or trying to start a political fight, I have wondered this for a long time...
If someone can provide an answer or just a thought on that, I'd love it, thanks!

They are justified by their hatred of Republicans, Conservitives and -----DONALD TRUMP. Most of these feminist groups are really nothing more than left wing cheer leaders and trouble shooters.

 

[just.wing.it]

How do you know that any given woman in a burqa is "forced" to wear it?

Because I know about Islam.

Islam, as practiced by the "fundamentalists" is simply put, a religion of oppression, and submission...
In fact the word Islam translates to "Submit or Submission"....
Do you know how they treat women and gay's over there???
Anyone who is serious about equality should be screaming from the mountaintops exactly what I'm saying....

Look, I don't wanna go any further with this, maybe someone else will, but I see where this is going, and I don't want to fight you....so that's all I'm gonna say.

 

[A. Gorilla]

Because I know about Islam.

Islam, as practiced by the "fundamentalists" is simply put, a religion of oppression, and submission...
In fact the word Islam translates to "Submit or Submission"....
Do you know how they treat women and gay's over there???
Anyone who is serious about equality should be screaming from the mountaintops exactly what I'm saying....

Look, I don't wanna go any further with this, maybe someone else will, but I see where this is going, and I don't want to fight you....so that's all I'm gonna say.

I had to sit through a Muslim sensitivity seminar for work.

Here is the canned answer in a nutshell:

Negative stuff: "Cultural baggage; not Islam itself"

Anything positive sounding: "That's the real Islam"

Yet, it really doesn't make any practical difference. I could just as well criticize "cultural baggage" and be called a bigot and a racist anyway.

A very telling situation, is when I asked how I was supposed to choose my muslim denomination if I were to convert today.

Their body language erupted with stress relieving grooming gestures, they straightened right up and said diplomatically that there is only one Islam, and that is Sunni.

And there you have it. The admission that more is not merrier. It just becomes sectarian. Forget the west, they don't even like each other.