Branch, Knob, Concave, whats the point?

[Johnathan]

I bought a pair of Kaneshin spherical concave cutters (right tool in your photo) a few years ago and it has become a go-to cutter for me. For 20 years, I used mainly knob cutters and concave cutters, but have found the spherical concave cutter gives the access of a concave cutter, but the bite of a knob cutter. As mentioned though, the 8” cutters are really designed to cut branches less than 1/2” in diameter. Much larger, and a small saw is a cleaner way to go.

So my question now is, would the 20 years using the knob cutters and concave cutters separately been easier by using the rounded edge tool? Or, does the 20 years of using those tools separately and understanding why, and how they are used make the learning curve on the rounded edge cutters easier?

If it was your first tool ever,would you choose the hybrid or two separate?

 

[Tieball]

I use a multi-tool a lot. I think it’s sold as a root pruner. I use it all over...and it can take the stress very well.

 

[Potawatomi13]

With some species isn’t the straight edge preferable? I have heard this is the case with crepe myrtle, as you do not want a concave impression in the tree, but rather a flush, flat, cut.

Concave heal over neater.

 

[River's Edge]

I wonder why it has not been pointed out that regardless of the type of cutter you use it is still a good idea to re-cut the edge with a very sharp blade after. I confess i have almost every shape of cutter in my bag and find a use for most. That still does not stop me from looking every chance I get. Forget a bout which one is best, concentrate on having every option in all sizes. I say, support tool makers worldwide, try them all. And they do not have to be identified as Bonsai tools, a great tool is where you find it.

 

[Anthony]

Masakuni 6 inch concave prune - $20.00 - 1981 or so - Today ?
Chinese no name brand 6 inch - $ 8 to 12 US or so Today.[ Amazon ]

Root pruner was a gift - Kiku cost ? 1981

Scissors with large side [ uses thumb palm section - will not strain fingers]
about 1 US.

Let us not encourage Johnathan to break his pocket on tools.
Pots are bad enough.
Good Day
Anthony

*Anyone entering Bonsai in the 70's / 80's would tell you this was
a cheap / affordable hobby.
Today - Masakuni - ha ha ha

 

[JudyB]

On a side note, I've also decided to go with Blue Steel Scissors.....

I'll bet this will set you back a penny or two! I thought about it, but really the normal ones are about as sharp as I can imagine.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

So my question now is, would the 20 years using the knob cutters and concave cutters separately been easier by using the rounded edge tool? Or, does the 20 years of using those tools separately and understanding why, and how they are used make the learning curve on the rounded edge cutters easier?

If it was your first tool ever,would you choose the hybrid or two separate?

I really can’t answer that, but can tell you that when I do grab a handful of tools out of my bag to do basic work on trees, it is now almost always these:

Long-handle shears
Spherical concave cutter
Wire cutter
Tweezers
Pliers

You’d manage 95% of what you need to accomplish with these 5 tools. Don’t overthink the cutters, straigh, curved, or knob all work and have a slightly different cut, but I was surprised at how often I reached for the spherical concacves once I had them.

The main difference is your hand’s grip position. Spherical concaves allow you to reach up and under a branch to make the cut, not requiring you to press against the tree, and giving better visibility, where the jaw of knob cutters requires your hand position to be more like you hold a screwdriver, pressing straight into the cut and at times obstructing the view.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

On a side note, I've also decided to go with Blue Steel Scissors.....

I'll bet this will set you back a penny or two! I thought about it, but really the normal ones are about as sharp as I can imagine.

Most of my tools are white steel from kaneshin. A friend of mine ordered blue steel at the same time - there is no noticeable difference other than the prestige of the tradition and as Judy noted, the price tag!

I spoke to Kaneshin, and in the vendor's opinion the craftsman is often more important than the 'color' of the steel. The example they gave me: they have stopped production of 38A because the craftsman retired and nobody can make these blue steel scissors as well - they suggested i buy a similar but different model in a well crafted white or yellow, instead of a poorly crafted blue.

My favourite tool is the Kaneshin 301 - attached photo from google. It's great for getting into tight spots.

I use their Crean Mate for keeping my tools clean. I personally would not order any tools without also ordering this low-cost high-effect maintenance item. Here is a helpful video from youtube:

 

[Bonsai Nut]

My MOST USED tools are good tweezers! But, I have a lot of pines and I do a lot of refinement work.

My most used tools are my titanium chopsticks - which I use almost constantly for repotting and soil work (weeding, etc).

My most used pruning tool are my long-handled slim "refining scissors" (from American Bonsai). I love em.

The other tools are situational. When wiring, I obviously use my various wire cutters, etc. The concave pruners are used infrequently, but when used, they are often the single best tool for the job - for one or two cuts.

 

[River's Edge]

Most of my tools are white steel from kaneshin. A friend of mine ordered blue steel at the same time - there is no noticeable difference other than the prestige of the tradition and as Judy noted, the price tag!

I spoke to Kaneshin, and in the vendor's opinion the craftsman is often more important than the 'color' of the steel. The example they gave me: they have stopped production of 38A because the craftsman retired and nobody can make these blue steel scissors as well - they suggested i buy a similar but different model in a well crafted white or yellow, instead of a poorly crafted blue.

My favourite tool is the Kaneshin 301 - attached photo from google. It's great for getting into tight spots.

I use their Crean Mate for keeping my tools clean. I personally would not order any tools without also ordering this low-cost high-effect maintenance item. Here is a helpful video from youtube:

On a similar note, a good set of water stones for sharpening makes a lot of difference. Taking the time to keep the stones trued before use is also important.
For cleaning i find a small strip of fine emery cloth saturated with food grade mineral oil very effective. Wipe lightly dry and a slight amount of oil is left to preserve and protect.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I also chose American Bonsai tools but I do actually like the carbon ones too. I love my concave cutters. I did damage a pair trying to cut a branch that was too thick and I don’t even have large trees.

 

[petegreg]

I also chose American Bonsai tools but I do actually like the carbon ones too. I love my concave cutters. I did damage a pair trying to cut a branch that was too thick and I don’t even have large trees.View attachment 217403

I love all about these AB canvas tool roll.
I've had some accidents, or broken cheaper tools when I wanted to cut more than they could do. We need to use them correctly.

 

[PiñonJ]

So my question now is, would the 20 years using the knob cutters and concave cutters separately been easier by using the rounded edge tool? Or, does the 20 years of using those tools separately and understanding why, and how they are used make the learning curve on the rounded edge cutters easier?

If it was your first tool ever,would you choose the hybrid or two separate?

As BVF stated, you're over-thinking this. I have the Kaneshin spherical concave cutter and it is now the cutting tool that I use the most, because it doesn't matter what angle I approach the cut from. Because it's angled, it is easier to use than a knob cutter. I sometimes still use my straight concave cutter, and even less frequently, my knob cutter, but only because they're larger. Had I known about the spherical concave cutter earlier, I definitely would have bought it before the other cutters.

 

[shinmai]

Most of my projects are rhododendrons or Satsuki. In Callaham’s book, he is adamant about using convex cutters, because they will cut flush to the trunk, and azaleas do not callus the way deciduous trees will.
After considerable searching, I found a pair by Masakuni, which I ordered from California Bonsai Studio. They were blisteringly expensive—$170–but after the first hour of using them I was asking, where have you been all my life? I also love the refining scissors from ABS for leaf and twig pruning, but reach for the convex cutters for things up to about 3/8”.

 

[hemmy]

The root scissors are the most expensive tool. They are scissors that have the handles bent. They allow you to cut the bottom of the root ball flat without your fingers rubbing the bottom as you cut.

Do you have picture or an online link to these? I didn’t see anything similar from the larger online retailers.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

coincidental timing with our discussion, Peter Chan's new video:

 

[Cosmos]

I bought most basic bonsai tools over the last year. No purchase I regret, but I got to say that as a beginner, you can go a looooooong way with only a decent pair of shears (I’d favour the long-handle ones) and a quality bypass pruner. The $80 wire cutters and jin pliers makes me laugh....they are useful, but until you wire lots and lots, any pair of cutters and pliers from a big box store can do the job (and you won’t be afraid to use them for non bonsai stuff too).

The concave cutters are useful and fun to use, but quite expensive if you want something good. And if you work mostly with cheap/basic material or nusery stock, you are unlikely to need to do flush cuts right away. You can always leave a stub (should?) and come back later to remove the dead wood.

Repotting actually requires more tools than maintenance/cleanup/pruning. I have a pair of $5 robust scissors and a cheap bypass pruners reserved for root work.

My next purchases will probably be a spherical knob cutter and a good bypass pruner, along with a pair of bonsai tweezers (I think tweezers are underrated as far as usefulness goes).

 

[leatherback]

For all using spherical concave cutters..
What jobs do you use them for? I have managed to bend 3 (!) within 12 months. The first one was clear; I tried a very thick branch. The second.. Cannot remember what I did. But the third.. it was a 1/4 inch juniper stump. And the beak bent on that!?
Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong? I mean, I did not buy the best tools on the market, but Riyuga is a respectable brand, so I doubt it is tool quality that is bugging me?

 

[TN_Jim]

For all using spherical concave cutters..
What jobs do you use them for? I have managed to bend 3 (!) within 12 months. The first one was clear; I tried a very thick branch. The second.. Cannot remember what I did. But the third.. it was a 1/4 inch juniper stump. And the beak bent on that!?
Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong? I mean, I did not buy the best tools on the market, but Riyuga is a respectable brand, so I doubt it is tool quality that is bugging me?

I got these Tian spherical from amazon (link), and have been happy with them. Have used them on branches ~as thick as my thumb on deciduous and junipers, flush cuts and non.
However, I’ve been ginger with them..as in, if it’s not just slicing in, adjust cut or angle...or lop branch off with pruners and come back for refined cuts with them.

This was my first technical “bonsai” tool, and I went nuts with them...cutting branches in the yard even...

To be able to come in at varying degrees at an angle is the best advantage to them I see.

Tho..I learned quickly to keep them (blades) oiled after each use.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HAYZQSU/

 

[PiñonJ]

For all using spherical concave cutters..
What jobs do you use them for? I have managed to bend 3 (!) within 12 months. The first one was clear; I tried a very thick branch. The second.. Cannot remember what I did. But the third.. it was a 1/4 inch juniper stump. And the beak bent on that!?
Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong? I mean, I did not buy the best tools on the market, but Riyuga is a respectable brand, so I doubt it is tool quality that is bugging me?

I’m not familiar with the brand. I have Kaneshin and I use them for most branch work, unless I need something bigger. I don’t baby them and haven’t had any problem.