Bonsai Tonight post on akadama and soil mixtures

[sorce]

" we don't know"

We do know.

I meant a different "we don't know". Th one that is actually not present. I cover it above.

Sand does one thing- takes up space. Maybe it is falling out of your vagina.

Mediocre materials will generally yield similar results.

Never say "never". As I have already said- there are hundreds of examples out there on one side being cleaned and then the other. Your discussions are literal walking list of logical fallacies.

You were hoping I missed this weren't you.

It hit home cuz it was you, right?

Captain save a newb! Lol

Didn't you tell me on FB to come back here where people Believe the shit I say?

Why did you follow me?
(Operative Word Follow)

If you don't get it, it's ok, don't try to tarnish my name with your ignorance.

You will fail.


Sorce

 

[Sekibonsai]

We do know.

I meant a different "we don't know". Th one that is actually not present. I cover it above.



You were hoping I missed this weren't you.

It hit home cuz it was you, right?

Captain save a newb! Lol

Didn't you tell me on FB to come back here where people Believe the shit I say?

Why did you follow me?
(Operative Word Follow)

If you don't get it, it's ok, don't try to tarnish my name with your ignorance.

You will fail.


Sorce

No I came here in spite of you not because. Shame that you steer others down the wrong path.

 

[Lazylightningny]

No I came here in spite of you not because. Shame that you steer others down the wrong path.

Good edit lol

 

[Sekibonsai]

Good edit lol

Discretion is the better part of intelligence. QED.

 

[bwaynef]

But you misunderstood my post.

I haven't finished reading this post, but I've seen too many of your posts lately that incite a response in others only for you to say that you were misunderstood. At some point, you need to spend some time figuring out how to express yourself in a way that's meaningful to other people so you can get your point across. Use ALL of your words. Complete sentences. Full quotes. Comments mid-thread pertinent to the current discussion ...or a relevant (full-context) quote to lead the discussion down the path you're trying to take it.

You've got a lot to say, but a lot of us apparently don't know what that is.

 

[Adair M]

Randy Knight uses straight pumice because it encourages fast, coarse root growth. He’s pulled trees off the mountain and while I’m sure he does his best to get as much roots as possible, the tree will have fewer roots immediately after collection than it had before. So, he wants to rebuild those roots as quickly as possible. While that’s happening, he not concerned about the foliage other than he wants enough to sustain the tree. What he wants, is roots, so the tree will survive.

Once we have a bonsai, in a bonsai pot, and the phase changes from development to refinement, our objectives change from “growth” to “refinement”. We don’t want coarse roots, we want small feeder roots because we are now working in a smaller confined space for roots. We’re working on ramification, and a soil substrate that encourages smaller finer roots is preferred to one that encourages coarse roots. The growth above the soil mirrors the growth below soil. Fine rootage encourages fine twigging.

Akadama, when it breaks down, does encourage smaller, finer roots. Of course, at some point, it needs to be changed out, and that us our responsibility to observe how the water moves thru the pot and take appropriate action.

 

[Paradox]

The picture of the roots from the half bare rooted tree reflects some of my own experience with soils and I transitioned from one type to another.

When I first started, I tried really hard to try and use locally sourced soil that was free or cheap to obtain.
At the time, I had no local sorce of obtaining lava, pumice, akadama

I went from a sand mix to a sand and gravel mix over the first few years.
Carrying a tree around in a training box with 2-3 gallons of sand and gravel mix is back breaking!

The first MABS (Mid Atlantic Bonsai Societies) show I went to, I saw all the bags of soil
(lava, pumice, akadama).

Someone convinced me to "try it on a couple of trees and see"

The second tree I ever bought was a scots pine from a landscape nursery in 2011.
I originally repotted it into a sand mix, then later repotted into a sand and gravel mix.

Pics from 2012 and 2014 in sand and then sand and gravel



That sucker was heavy to lug around, believe me!

The tree did ok, grew and was healthy but not really what I would call super vigorous.

In 2016 I repotted it into a lava, pumice mix and covered the soil with moss (the wire mesh is to keep the birds from flipping the moss over).



One thing I noticed when I repotted is that the tree, while it had survived and was healthy, didnt have a lot of root growth.

The sand/gravel mix was so dense, the sand filling in all the spaces between the gravel. Also the soil was wet.
Despite being sand and gravel, it still didnt dry out well. So I think in combination with the soil being wet and so dense the roots didnt need to expand much to find water.

In the fall, I removed the moss prior to putting the tree into winter storage and I was astounded to see that the tree had gone nuts with root growth.
Roots were extending through the pot and up into the moss. The difference was night and day. After that I didnt question the attributes of a lava, pumice, akadama mix.

2019 vert with part of it hidden to see what it will look like in the furture with that part removed

 

[Walter Pall]

Most folks are aware that a small group of people in Coraita together probably have more outstaing collected broadlef bonsai than the rest of the Western world together. I know it for a fact that ALL of these trees are grown in pure baked loam (similar to turface, made for the construciton industry) plus some rough peat. And they are doing very well.

 

[Anthony]

Careful, Mr.Pall,

in the 1970's there was a kit you could purchase of leca balls and
a double pot with a water indicator, for growing anything.

The akadamaites might say your idea is old.

Yes, we are also seeing better results in expanded fired clay pebbles,
but we use aged compost as peatmoss composts after a few months
when used as a soil.

Money / sales / rent / rote, is what the Japanese turned Bonsai into.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

@sorce ,

a pottery shape carries your signature for thousands of years.

A bonsai changes design every 10 years or so, has no signature
and when you die ?

The bonsai was meant for contemplation, not competition.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

a pottery shape carries your signature for thousands of years.

I was telling Sorceress about how I don't want my name on some things!

@bwaynef I don't fancy ignoring you sir, just can't stand to "fight" anymore friends.

Here is an excerpt from another thread explaining how I was misunderstood.



See how when one has an idea fixed on there head, other things change ridiculously? Beyond what we know as our own intelligence. @Hanwest29 knows, and knows he knows they are seeds.... but...

Internet assists great confusion.

Sorce

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

This year marks the first that I'm using Akadama Lava Pumice mixes for some of my trees and unfortunately, I feel like the trees in this mix stays too wet. The trees in my other homemade mixes are doing great though. May change my tune once summer rolls around and I gotta water multiple times per day, but Im thinking soil mix is definitely a climate dependant piece of the bonsai puzzle.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Im thinking soil mix is definitely a climate dependant piece of the bonsai puzzle.

I think that's the sole reason why there's a team akadama in hotter regions and an anti-akadama team everywhere else.

 

[River's Edge]

This year marks the first that I'm using Akadama Lava Pumice mixes for some of my trees and unfortunately, I feel like the trees in this mix stays too wet. The trees in my other homemade mixes are doing great though. May change my tune once summer rolls around and I gotta water multiple times per day, but Im thinking soil mix is definitely a climate dependant piece of the bonsai puzzle.

Soil mixes are definitely climate dependant. If the components were all seived to medium particle size and fines discarded they will be damp but not wet. The particle shape and size will preserve proper moisture and air levels without trapping excess moisture. Assuming the central core is not compacted soil and the new mixture was not just placed around the remaining compacted core. If you are still concerned that the mix is too wet then simply reduce the percentage of akadama. I live on Vancouver Island, rain forest country, I use approximately 15-20% akadama and medium particle size. ( middle screen in set of three) for reference. My nursery consists of JBP, JRP, Trident, Jap Maples (assorted) ,Korean Hornbeam, Zelkova, Beech, Jap Larch, Hemlock, Sub alpine Fir, Shore Pine, Ponderosa Pine. Note: most of these conifers require drier conditions and I live in a wet climate.
Properly seived and placed it is almost impossible to water daily and have it remain too wet! Assuming proper drainage in containers and pots used.
You will also find that the APL mix will dry quickly in very hot weather, sometimes necessitating multiple waterings. In this case a simple solution is to increase the percentage of akadama or cover the surface with shredded sphagnum moss to reduce evaporation. One can also add pine bark if seived to similar particle size to help retain additional moisture!
If you climate is wet I would suggest the sphagnum moss covering as it is simply removed in the fall when wetter weather arrives. Hope these suggestions help.

 

[River's Edge]

I think that's the sole reason why there's a team akadama in hotter regions and an anti-akadama team everywhere else.

I think it has more to do with adaptation, availability and habits

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think it has more to do with adaptation, availability and habits

Do you mean the people? Or the plants?
Personally, I'm convinced that I adapt more poorly than my plants.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Soil mixes are definitely climate dependant. If the components were all seived to medium particle size and fines discarded they will be damp but not wet. The particle shape and size will preserve proper moisture and air levels without trapping excess moisture. Assuming the central core is not compacted soil and the new mixture was not just placed around the remaining compacted core. If you are still concerned that the mix is too wet then simply reduce the percentage of akadama. I live on Vancouver Island, rain forest country, I use approximately 15-20% akadama and medium particle size. ( middle screen in set of three) for reference. My nursery consists of JBP, JRP, Trident, Jap Maples (assorted) ,Korean Hornbeam, Zelkova, Beech, Jap Larch, Hemlock, Sub alpine Fir, Shore Pine, Ponderosa Pine. Note: most of these conifers require drier conditions and I live in a wet climate.
Properly seived and placed it is almost impossible to water daily and have it remain too wet! Assuming proper drainage in containers and pots used.
You will also find that the APL mix will dry quickly in very hot weather, sometimes necessitating multiple waterings. In this case a simple solution is to increase the percentage of akadama or cover the surface with shredded sphagnum moss to reduce evaporation. One can also add pine bark if seived to similar particle size to help retain additional moisture!
If you climate is wet I would suggest the sphagnum moss covering as it is simply removed in the fall when wetter weather arrives. Hope these suggestions help.

These are important points.

Sieving is critical because akadama does make a lot of dust, which turns into muck.
Uniform particle size ensures smaller particles don't clog up air pockets.
You can't overwater good inorganic bonsai soil. What a difference from the old days when you had to spend years just learning how to water.
Having said that, it is easy to underwater good inorganic bonsai soil because it does dry out fast, and potentially dessicate and kill roots. I use Frank's suggestion of moss or shredded and sifted sphagnum moss as a topping to help reduce evaporative loss in the summer. I shred it though the large size sifter screen. Ensure your sphagnum moss is properly sifted through the smallest screen afterward because it makes a ton of fines. You may lose up to half of your moss to fines.
Your location will dictate how much akadama to use in the mix. It doesn't have to be APL 1:1:1.

You can not use akadama and have good results, but for me, in my bonsai journey so far, I have seen superior results when akadama was mixed into my soil. I tend to not take advice at face value, and I lost many years of good bonsai growth because I didn't listen to the advice of others.

 

[River's Edge]

Do you mean the people? Or the plants?
Personally, I'm convinced that I adapt more poorly than my plants.

Absolutely the people. Are they open to adapting their practices? Availability refers to the components one can use or afford to use! Habits refers to their practices and how they affect the performance of soil mixes. ie watering skills!
Just for the record. Boon teaches adapting the ratio of components based on species, stage of development, climate and watering practices!
The guideline of APL 1:1:1 is just that a general overall guideline that can work reasonably well in most circumstances.
He always suggests variation to suit ones circumstances. As do all the other professionals I have worked with in North America and Japan.
For example at his suggestion I reduce the amount of Akadama, increase the amount of pumice, add granite. The overall effect for me is a drier mix with a heavier component. I live in a wetter climate, at the head of a river valley prone to gusty winds!
As I age the granite may give way to anchoring all my pots to benches. However I am slow to adapt to that change as I dislike the extra inconvenience and the aesthetics for display. Instead I invested in wheeled hydraulic carts to shift heavier plants and pots! Perhaps that counts for adaptation.

 

[Trenthany]

Yes, but what they tell us is good fresh soil is better than bad old soil. We already know that.

I'm saying nothing except, we don't know what the other half would look like if it was in good fresh soil.

Sorce

Long thread and haven’t read it all but this inspired a thought. Next full repot will a boons mix person try two different soils in one pot? Preferably with several species with variations made to accommodate needs of course.
Currently I’m using almost an exact copy of Wigart’s soil as I’m at a point where I’m growing plants not refining so I’m trusting the nursery that gets almost the exact same weather pattern I have and has a lot of amazing trees. The owner Andrea told me that every tree there was planted in their regular mix including the ones on display as finished pieces that were part of their collection. Seems like a pretty good reason for me to stick with it as my start. I bulk bought ingredients and copied there’s approx. I may be off a little in ratios but it’s an almost even mix of lava, beatty’s, and bark. I can add more or less organics and I organics for various purposes but that gives me a solid base for my area. They’re right down the road so that’s my source and reasoning. I’m not experienced and can’t comment beyond that I’m trusting people that literally make their living selling trees and tools to you guys fairly often from what I’ve seen in the forum.

 

[Trenthany]

Damn I wrote a shorter version

As a person who promotes questioning, perhaps you should conduct an experiment and post the results in pictures to portray the results.
The fact is that many have already experienced this difference and know what the results are!

All you would have to do is repot a suitable tree with Boon Mix on one side and your fresh soil on the other side. Simple and then you will know by checking the following year for progress and comparable root structure!

I am sure with your training and experience you could attend to the watering and fertilizer requirement difference of each side of the repot.

How about it Sorce are you up for the opportunity to expand your horizons? Pursuit of knowledge, hands on learning!

I would join you but I have already been there and done that!

in fact one of my favourite activities with club presentations is to have various members bring in their soil mixes and trees! This gives everyone an opportunity to learn. Each tree is taken out of the pot and the root ball condition is checked and discussed. It is important to understand how roots work and which forms are more effective in a pot.

Everyone gets to see for themselves how well their methods work in forming root structure suitable for bonsai. In maintaining space for air and water over time. In forming a higher percentage of feeder roots.

It also becomes evident that many combinations can work, even though it is very clear that some work way better than others. Trees survive under many less than optimum conditions, they thrive when provided with better conditions.

of this instead of scrolling through. Lol. Now I start reading again and bam. Just down the page. Sorry!