Bonsai soil mix

[TGBentsze]

Hi guys! I've recently watched this video -

Basically he uses a mixture of perlite/coco coir in 85/15 mix for his mid development pines

What do you guys think about it? Can it work/work for other species/work for other species with some modification?

Other opinions about using this simple/stock mixture?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Seems a pretty established mix with me, neglecting the obvious wash away issues of perlite and environmental considerations.

As always watch the water needs.

Eric also uses a perlite coco coir mix for growing out junipers.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ShadyStump]

First rule of life: if it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

The larger sized perlite is generally preferred. Coco coir is becoming popular, especially in areas with hot summers. It will hold allot of moisture, but not compact like peat. It will stay nice and fluffy, so the roots don't suffocate.
Both ingredients are very light weight, so can be washed away by heavy water or wind. They are also nutritionally inert, so fertilizer is still important.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Both ingredients are very light weight, so can be washed away by heavy water or wind.

I've been growing a few African sumac trees in this mix and the biggest problem I have is that the wind will knock the pot over really easily, especially the one that has grown the tallest. Make sure to secure the pot or put some larger rocks in the bottom or something like that so they aren't constantly falling over. Placing them in pot-holding containers is probably best.

 

[TGBentsze]

First rule of life: if it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

The larger sized perlite is generally preferred. Coco coir is becoming popular, especially in areas with hot summers. It will hold allot of moisture, but not compact like peat. It will stay nice and fluffy, so the roots don't suffocate.
Both ingredients are very light weight, so can be washed away by heavy water or wind. They are also nutritionally inert, so fertilizer is still important.

I thought about adding some zeolite to the mix(its cheap as dirt near me), maybe just to the bottom, or directly in the mix, and that way the mix will hold more nutrients as well

 

[Kievnstavick]

@Eric Schrader , if you would like to add your personal experience to this topic since it is your video.

I believe the biggest factor on if the mix will work or not is your ability to tend to the needs of the tree in regards to watering and fertilizer.

 

[ShadyStump]

I thought about adding some zeolite to the mix(its cheap as dirt near me), maybe just to the bottom, or directly in the mix, and that way the mix will hold more nutrients as well

I have only been trying zeolite since last season, but that is what I have done with many because the stuff I got was so coarse and wouldn't hold enough water for my summers.

I'm actually considering using some zeolite in my aquarium filter, which should fill it with nitrates; then add that used zeolite to my potting mixes for easy fertilizing, at least for a season.

 

[Eric Schrader]

@Eric Schrader , if you would like to add your personal experience to this topic since it is your video.

I believe the biggest factor on if the mix will work or not is your ability to tend to the needs of the tree in regards to watering and fertilizer.

Some updates based on what I've been seeing in my operation -

1. The coco coir at 15% breaks down after 2-3 years and the soil become less capable of nutrient retention. This is a problem if you were growing in the same pot long-term, but not if you are stepping up containers or changing it out for bonsai soil.
2. If the perlite is too small or dense it can cause problems for pines. To a lesser extent this is also true for some other trees, but JBP are very sensitive to soil moisture/air penetration. I recommend a "super coarse" perlite. But the terminology is not consistent. The ones from Mother Earth grades 3 and 4 are way too big and soft. The factory I get it from here locally has "4+" and it's smaller than the Mother Earth Grade 3. So basically you want a particle size that is as consistent as possible and about 1/4"-3/16". A bit of dust is not a problem, but if the particles are mixed sizing then it can be.
3. The mix retains a lot more water than APL's - so if you use both just be aware that watering will be different.
4. I've started using fir bark also - so the mix has evolved to more like 60-70% perlite, 15-20% bark, 15-20% coco coir. I'm also experimenting with adding a small amount of lava...and a few other things.
5. The mix is "Fast" for me - e.g. APL mixes are better for refinement, while this is better for coarse growth that is needed for growing trunks.
6. According to the literature perlite has a tendency to lock in nutrients initially - meaning that you need to fertilize a few times before there will be much available for the plant. Used perlite doesn't have that problem and the tests I'm referencing were in relation to comparisons of new and used media. (sterilization aside.)

I just want to reiterate that the main reasons I am using this type of mix are that it is CHEAP and AVAILABLE. In a growing operation soil logistics becomes a huge part of the everyday work. I think I spend more time moving soil and moving plants than I do actually wiring or pruning. I put out YT videos to share me experience and teach people what I know - or what i think I know - but I am not perfect, and iterating and adapting is critical to success in bonsai.

Good luck.

 

[Russ1]

I'm experimenting but I have been growing Brazilian Rain Tree cuttings 1-3 YO in 60% perlite, 20% Chunky Peat and 20% Coco Coir. They are doing well so far.
Juniper cuttings in roughly 62% Perlite, 23% Coco Coir and 15% Turface.
It depends on climate and, how much you need to water, and how much water your plant likes.

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

3. The mix retains a lot more water than APL's - so if you use both just be aware that watering will be different.
4. I've started using fir bark also - so the mix has evolved to more like 60-70% perlite, 15-20% bark, 15-20% coco coir. I'm also experimenting with adding a small amount of lava...and a few other things.

I am a printmaking and visual artist who is new to bonsai (been at it for 3 years). I have just gotten some black pines from the Bonsaify site because it is such a well studied and reliable species.

I already had some perlite and I sifted it tonight. That stuff doesn’t just “hang onto water”. It HOLDS WATER. Roots will not sit in wet perlite and rot. I poured 2 gallons of water through a sifted basket of it, to “wash dust off”. Not a drop of water came out the bottom. I couldn’t even get the water out of it when I shook it.

So, just the fact that perlite holds water so well has turned me onto its possibilities. Instead of amending the overall mix with something like bark, I am using coco peat (or pith) in a 30% ratio to 70% perlite, with larger chunks of perlite for most of my potting media. Some also include the coco bark. The stuff is “dirt” cheap. The trees I have in development with the peat / bark / perlite mixes are all doing really well. It breathes and drains very well.

Eastern Red Cedar, Juniper Procumbens, JM, spruces, and cypresses are all loving it (so far).

I just want to find out what I can do with the coarse sand particles I’ve sifted out of the perlite. Might be good for seedling craters if I want to start some JBP in the future.

Seeing how this all goes.

Grunge

 

[ShadyStump]

Since this thread popped up again, I thought I'd share.
Some bonsai soil appropriate media is also used as filter media for fish tanks because of the high CEC - cation exchange capacity, in short the ability of a medium to absorb and release various chemicals. I'm running an experiment right now if using zeolite in our goldfish tank, the reuse the same stuff in my trees once it's packed with nitrates and phosphates from the fish poo.
I may try the same thing with other media as well.

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

fish poo.

If this works, it could finally justify that koi pond I’ve been wanting to build. .

 

[ShadyStump]

If this works, it could finally justify that koi pond I’ve been wanting to build. .

I water the houseplants and such with water from the tank fairly routinely. They love it, and it makes water changes simpler.
Unfortunately I'm out of test strips right now, so I can't even see how this stuff is doing as filter medium yet.