Bonsai scam alert

f1pt4 said:
Wait.. so the seller bought that from a reputable dealer, and then re-sold it for $2.5k. And the person who bought it never saw the tree or did his research on the tree before he bought it? Now the buyer is upset that the tree he purchased isn't the tree he had in his mind?

I just hope disappointment due to naivety isn't the sole reason that capitalism is made the villain here.

However, naming only one party/hearing only one side of the story is not very fair to make an unbiased assessment of the situation imo.

Regardless, I wish them both a successful growing season!
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No. Just no.

If Tim’s story is factually accurate, then there’s one word for it: FRAUD.

If it were me, I would sue the seller in small claims court. Dead serious. Not so much for the $2500, although that is undoubtedly a lot of money for a lot of people.

But to hold the seller accountable for a blatant fraudulent misrepresentation.
 
Mike Hennigan said:
I believe that’s what is called “dumb money”!
Click to expand...
People have entrusted people they trusted to get material for them. It's done. I've told my contact funds I had to spend. Characteristics I'm looking for. That's how I got my Ginkgo. Sure, not $2000 material. But when does the value change perceptive? To me...it doesn't.
 
Colorado said:
No. Just no.

If Tim’s story is factually accurate, then there’s one word for it: FRAUD.

If it were me, I would sue the seller in small claims court. Dead serious. Not so much for the $2500, although that is undoubtedly a lot of money for a lot of people.

But to hold the seller accountable for a blatant fraudulent misrepresentation.
Click to expand...
Hopefully today I will post a link to the story with over 350 comments. Then all will be revealed! I just wanted to sort of protect the victim in this circumstance, but it’s becoming more widely known now. I don’t disagree with folks questioning a “one sided” portrait of a story, it’s reasonable to want both sides
 
Once people can read the entire story instead of just reading a recounting of what happened, it should become clear to all who the wrongdoer is. It would be like if I told anyone here who I've sold things to that I would broker them a worthy tree, and then went to HomeDepot and got you a siap. Sure caution is always good when purchasing, but trusting someone you've done business with before can take down your guard. And the way the victim here is offering to allow the perpetrator to make amends, with all of the funds in question being donated to a cause should make it clear what type of person this is. I do hope that @Stillwater has the balls to come clean, admit his mistake and make it right. There's still time to salvage your reputation in the business if you get your nose clean and learn something from this. Otherwise, I think you'll have to change your name and go underground to find new victims.
 
Ruben Bouwmeester said:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217940578040211&set=a.1038455315779&type=3&theater&ifg=1 Here it is Jelle. Life is all about trust, unfortantly same story's i have heard for European bonsaiist.
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Actually that isn't the correct link. I believe he is waiting to make sure he's allowed to share the guys link. He's someone many know. Which is why I've not shared the link. I can't see him mind sharing it. Proof is there in his post. Black and White no grey areas.
 
Colorado said:
No. Just no.

If Tim’s story is factually accurate, then there’s one word for it: FRAUD.

If it were me, I would sue the seller in small claims court. Dead serious. Not so much for the $2500, although that is undoubtedly a lot of money for a lot of people.

But to hold the seller accountable for a blatant fraudulent misrepresentation.
[/https://www.facebook.com/1057397277/posts/10217940699763254/?d=n
Click to expand...
Tim Shoup said:
Just want to alert the bonsai community to a scam issue involving Bruce Rhea and his company, Stillwater Bonsai in Maine. His most egregious scam so far was selling a $300 tree as a “show quality” import tree for $2500, then refusing to work with the buyer, dodging and unfriending everyone.
That was a year ago, and he is starting to resurface in these forums and others like bonsai auctions.
There are at least 4 other people who have been scammed. There is no room in this community for such people. Beware!
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ok so for all on Facebook, here’s a link to the story.
https://www.facebook.com/1057397277/posts/10217940699763254
 
There were posts from Bonsai Auctions and from Sam Miller on this same vendor so there is smoke here.
 
Tim Shoup said:
ok so for all on Facebook, here’s a link to the story.
https://www.facebook.com/1057397277/posts/10217940699763254
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Thank you for sharing this. It's unfortunate that this happened.

I'm just wondering about this side of the story?:

"Woody Carverton I'm aware you are all part of the Andy ***** fan club here, and have no interest in looking at the facts because it's not the popular thing to do. Quite certain as Andy posted this on his own personal apge so he could moderate the discussion and not leave comments up from anyone who has done business with Bruce that this comment will disappear like the rest i have seen that support the fact that all of this is false, but as an old guy who is neutral to all of this. I think Andy, and the rest of his fan club are way off base here. First off, as a retired investigative journalist it only took me 5 minutes to get to some facts here. 1st: Having scraped the meta data from the photo Brussels is using, that image was taken AFTER Andy claims to have gotten the tree. Meaning the tree was in HIS possession when that picture was taken. Next, having found this thread on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/.../has_brussels_lost_their_minds/) where Brussels is selling a twig on a rock for $1,149, the tree Andy is claiming is Brussels would have a price tag of $5,000 or more.

Lastly and most important. I actually called Brussels today. They do not have that tree, and seem to know nothing about it. I offered to buy it from them for that same $500 they were offering it for and was informed that the image is just a "Stock" image they use for their generic specimen junipers. It's on their website, its on Ebay, it's circulated to say the least."

this is about the extent I will look into the story. I don't have much time these days. Regardless, it's a pickle.

***CORRECTION***

Brussels did chime in... and it is a tree from them.

I hate facebook.. It sucks you in and steals your soul. I wasn't supposed to go down that rabbit hole.
 
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I read through the Facebook thread. Tim's warning sounds warranted to me.

If I were the seller and/orWoodyCarverton, I'd be worried about federal wire fraud charges...

Unfortunately, the buyer assumed Woody AKA Stillwater, was a "bonsai guy" like the vast majority of good willed people involved with the hobby/art. Unfortunately, he was apparently dealing with someone completely different.
 
f1pt4 said:
Thank you for sharing this. It's unfortunate that this happened.

I'm just wondering about this side of the story?:

"Woody Carverton I'm aware you are all part of the Andy ***** fan club here, and have no interest in looking at the facts because it's not the popular thing to do. Quite certain as Andy posted this on his own personal apge so he could moderate the discussion and not leave comments up from anyone who has done business with Bruce that this comment will disappear like the rest i have seen that support the fact that all of this is false, but as an old guy who is neutral to all of this. I think Andy, and the rest of his fan club are way off base here. First off, as a retired investigative journalist it only took me 5 minutes to get to some facts here. 1st: Having scraped the meta data from the photo Brussels is using, that image was taken AFTER Andy claims to have gotten the tree. Meaning the tree was in HIS possession when that picture was taken. Next, having found this thread on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/.../has_brussels_lost_their_minds/) where Brussels is selling a twig on a rock for $1,149, the tree Andy is claiming is Brussels would have a price tag of $5,000 or more.

Lastly and most important. I actually called Brussels today. They do not have that tree, and seem to know nothing about it. I offered to buy it from them for that same $500 they were offering it for and was informed that the image is just a "Stock" image they use for their generic specimen junipers. It's on their website, its on Ebay, it's circulated to say the least."

this is about the extent I will look into the story. I don't have much time these days. Regardless, it's a pickle.

***CORRECTION***

Brussels did chime in... and it is a tree from them.

I hate facebook.. It sucks you in and steals your soul. I wasn't supposed to go down that rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
Woody Carverton is full of shit.
 
@Bonsai Nut

I see my post was deleted here. Was there a reason for that? Care to elaborate for the heavy handed moderation?
Is Sorce taking is allowance here a bit too far?

I dont see where stating my feeling bad that someone got scammed but IMO spending $2500 for a tree sight unseen might have been a bit foolish is off.
Considering there are other posts stating the same that have not been moderated, I would like an explanation.

Lets see if this one gets deleted as well.
What else has been "moderated" or deleted I have to wonder
 
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Update, Scam Alert

Ok so here’s a link. There are now more than 360 comments, including Bruce Rhea from Stillwater Bonsai posing as “Woody Woodcarver”
www.bonsainut.com www.bonsainut.com

Sorce
 
Paradox said:
@Bonsai Nut

I see my post was deleted here. Was there a reason for that? Care to elaborate for the heavy handed moderation?
Is Sorce taking is allowance here a bit too far?

I dont see where stating my feeling bad that someone got scammed but IMO spending $2500 for a tree sight unseen might have been a bit foolish is off.
Considering there are other posts stating the same that have not been moderated, I would like an explanation.

Lets see if this one gets deleted as well.
What else has been "moderated" or deleted I have to wonder
Click to expand...
You sure it wasn't in the second thread on the scam? Thought I seen it there.
 
Paradox said:
@Bonsai Nut

I see my post was deleted here. Was there a reason for that? Care to elaborate for the heavy handed moderation?
Is Sorce taking is allowance here a bit too far?

I dont see where stating my feeling bad that someone got scammed but IMO spending $2500 for a tree sight unseen might have been a bit foolish is off.
Considering there are other posts stating the same that have not been moderated, I would like an explanation.

Lets see if this one gets deleted as well.
What else has been "moderated" or deleted I have to wonder
Click to expand...
Its in the other "Scam Alert update" thread...
 
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