bonsai as an investment?

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

goztek, Just curious. How many people on Malta are keeping bonsai?

 

[rockm]

Hardee har har...

Sorry. Couldn't help it. Forgive me

This thought has been around a very long time, probably as long as bonsai has been in the West. It's a romanticized idea pumped up by media and the hazy, illogical view we have of Asia. Bonsai isn't valuable. It's only valuable if you know what you're looking at and have someone else who knows what they're looking at.

There is no high end market for bonsai over $10 grand in the U.S. outside of a dozen people or so (probably less). Might be 100 people in Europe who can afford to pay the freight for the choice high end collected and imported trees. These numbers are diminishing as the old coots with the cash aren't getting any younger... (I am an old coot, but have no cash--but that's another market...)

The market for bonsai is like the market for used cars. In the cold, hard, real-world, bonsai of any sort is a commodity--a pretty commodity, but a commodity nevertheless. It ranges from the mass produced crappola to unique and rare "one off" hand crafted trees. It's value is only as much as you can get for a tree on a particular day from a particular person. You will not make any money trying to grow saplings that will develop into "masterpieces." You can make money selling saplings to hobbyists who want good material to futz around with.

Specialized "hobby" markets abound--for cars and for bonsai. There are fanatics that will shell thousands (mostly in Japan for bonsai, in the US for cars) for a specific model (Shelby Cobra) or for bonsai (pedigreed Japanese pines). There are those looking for good value for their money. There are those looking to "pimp" out their expensive stock to impress someone (maybe their girlfriends...who knows...) You may be able to sell a big expensive collected tree to another individual once in a while, but unless you have access to alot of those trees, you won't be able to make a living. Even if you do have access, you might not be able to support yourself doing this.

Sorry. If you're looking for an investment, try gold bars...I have a jaundiced view of this question, as I believe bonsai are usually vastly overvalued by their owners--who view their trees with rose-colored glasses. I remember telling a lawyer a while back on another forum that his deceased client's collection of bonsai was basically not the gold mine he thought it was and he should probably sell it along with the other antiques at the estate yard sale he had planned.

 

[Vance Wood]

Short answer: As an investment like in buying a painting or any other piece of art is a bad idea. Too great a cost in time and fees to maintain in a volatile market. As an investment of obtaining raw material and developing it out for resale? That's another issue worth pursuing.

 

[Bill S]

Pssst!

Hey kid, do you know how to get a million dollars out of Bonsai?

Start with two million.

GOZEK your bonsai education needs a seriuos boost, if you think planting loads, and loads of seeds and just add water will come anywhere near creating masterpiece bonsai. Aside from the years it will take, there are numerous things working against you, one of them is actually selling the unworthy ones off, in many places the FEW good ones are harvested, and the rest burned in the field.

 

[Attila Soos]

Bonsai isn't valuable. It's only valuable if you know what you're looking at and have someone else who knows what they're looking at.

Just like everything else.

The hobby/arts/crafts markets are all very similar. You find someone who falls in love with your work, to the extend that he dishes out some money.

There is no high end market for bonsai over $10 grand in the U.S. outside of a dozen people or so (probably less). Might be 100 people in Europe who can afford to pay the freight for the choice high end collected and imported trees.

Here is the good thing about bonsai: you don't really need a "market" per se. All you need, is to find one person who looks at your tree and says: "Wow, this is awsome. How much?"...what, not for sale??!!!"

One can create his own market. It's all about how much you can inspire the potential buyer, and how badly he will want your creation. The public does not need your bonsai...but the public may want your bonsai if you can resonate a chord within the buyer's imagination.

These numbers are diminishing as the old coots with the cash aren't getting any younger

..but the young ones will get older. That's the age when one will learn to appreciate the finer things in life, such as bonsai.

The market for bonsai is like the market for used cars. In the cold, hard, real-world, bonsai of any sort is a commodity--a pretty commodity, but a commodity nevertheless. It ranges from the mass produced crappola to unique and rare "one off" hand crafted trees. It's value is only as much as you can get for a tree on a particular day from a particular person.

Right. The cars and bonsai are very different, but the nature of the motive within the buyer is very similar.

You will not make any money trying to grow saplings that will develop into "masterpieces." You can make money selling saplings to hobbyists who want good material to futz around with.

Absolutely. The profit margin from the moment you plant the seed, and the next three years, when the seedling becomes a one-gallon plant, is the highest. This is where you make the best profit, selling the plants for $6. I've seen a tray of trident maple seedlings (the tray had about 100 seedlings in it) yield $600, 3 years later. The total investment was about $10, and a few hours of labor. From here on, due to the labor intensiveness of creating a "masterpiece", your profits will decline every year.
Just like in the gold rush, where the most money was made by the industry supporting the gold diggers, not by the diggers themselves.

You may be able to sell a big expensive collected tree to another individual once in a while, but unless you have access to alot of those trees, you won't be able to make a living. Even if you do have access, you might not be able to support yourself doing this.

It's a good way to support your hobby - to subsidize it with the occasional sale.
If you want to make a living from bonsai, better think of yourself as a starving actor. The world does not need you, or your work, they couldn't care less who you are. You have to create that need first, and then sell what you have.

I believe bonsai are usually vastly overvalued by their owners--who view their trees with rose-colored glasses.

Yes, just human nature. We think highly of ourselves.

A good way to realistically value our trees is to think of the amount that we would like to pay today if someone offered it to us, thinking that we got a bargain. This would be a conservative estimate.