Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

[PABonsai]

People have wedged their fingers in their ears. Thank you for pointing this out (for 4th or 5th time?!) it’s unfortunate people seem to have such trouble actually reading something and absorbing the information and then thinking about it. Like that guy who is basing his opinion on what his actual hedges look like. Whoever said that. It seems common sense to me that you wouldn’t just hedge prune and then never go in and do a clean up pruning. Walter has made this very clear that he does this at least once a year in the fall. But people just hear what they want to when it comes to this stuff. Or when it comes to bonsai in general. Gotta get those t-shirts made!

They haven't wedged their fingers in their ears Bjorn directly addressed that followup pruning was required. He clearly understands what hedging is. He simply said he believes that hedging plus following up makes more work in the end than just doing the fine pruning from the start. That doesn't seem like an outrageous statement to me. I can't see why everyone is hating on Bjorn so much. He didn't attack anyone or say they shouldn't do what they do. He gave his opinion because he was flooded with comments by those who disagree with him. He simply responded to others.

And it is probably worth addressing the fact that Walter Pall doesn't treat all his trees the same. He admits he has some traditionally worked and styled trees. like he says, your goals are everything. Understanding the REASON for doing what you're doing is one of the guiding principles for what you do.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I think the first tree is the most artistic, but it has an artificial feel to it. Evidently, a tree has to be a certain way in order to win at shows. The first one reminds me of a standard poodle, all dolled up with poofy hair and ribbons.
I can picture the second one on a mountain somewhere. If in my bonsai garden, I would change nothing.

Anyway, Bjorn has a right to his opinion. He walked the walk with his apprenticeship in Japan. And like most Japanese apprentices, he learned mostly one way......the Master's way. Walter had no master. He learned from hands-on experience. He ALSO has the right to his opinion.

I don't do golf, but I saw a film where the host showed how most of the top golfers in history had an "incorrect" swing. Go figure.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

This has been a fascinating discussion for someone such as myself who is relatively new to bonsai.

I see the arguments for and against and it seems that people arent necessarily in favor of the method of hedging for any specific long term horticultural reasons, but insist that theres no reason why it shouldnt be an option for development of bonsai. On the other hand, those against it seem to dislike it because of it's lack of attention to detail and for not following accepted practices.

I see it being useful for someone such as Walter Pall who deals with hundreds and hundreds of trees. It is a simple and effective way to keep them in check without spending hours on each tree. For someone with only a handful of trees and only a select few at a point beyond early development, I have the time to spend on each tree and will continue to focus on more detailed and precise methods of pruning.

In the future, if I have many many trees, i see hedging being useful.

 

[Maloghurst]

They haven't wedged their fingers in their ears Bjorn directly addressed that followup pruning was required. He clearly understands what hedging is. He simply said he believes that hedging plus following up makes more work in the end than just doing the fine pruning from the start. That doesn't seem like an outrageous statement to me. I can't see why everyone is hating on Bjorn so much. He didn't attack anyone or say they shouldn't do what they do. He gave his opinion because he was flooded with comments by those who disagree with him. He simply responded to others.

And it is probably worth addressing the fact that Walter Pall doesn't treat all his trees the same. He admits he has some traditionally worked and styled trees. like he says, your goals are everything. Understanding the REASON for doing what you're doing is one of the guiding principles for what you do.

This is only part of Bjorns issue withe hedge pruning. The other is he doesn’t believe you achieve as fine ramification due to branch thickening caused by hedging.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I feel like I've seen the first tree (or a similar version of it) dozens of times at least, at bonsai exhibitions, in books, etc. The second one though is different from most bonsai, less stylized, not as manicured. That is refreshing to me.

I like both but if I was given the opportunity to choose one for my collection, I think I'd pick the second.

About the same conversation with the husband the other night. While I can admire the first and that is talent to achieve. I'm drawn to the less manicured one. Again as stated person preference.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Well, I can see thickening as you’re letting it grow out, then cutting back, repeat. It is worth noting though I’m sure it alread has been noted, that Walter espouses the hedge pruning method as a development method. Not a refinement method. He has said himself that if a tree were to be shown for example that you would stop hedging and use traditional methods, pinching, etc, for a couple years to refine the tree. And then at some point put it back into hedging mode so that it can gain health and vigor again. See he’s understands that you don’t need to just do one thing to a tree. That you can adjust your approach based on “what you’re trying to accomplish”

 

[Maloghurst]

Well, I can see thickening as you’re letting it grow out, then cutting back, repeat. It is worth noting though I’m sure it alread has been noted, that Walter espouses the hedge pruning method as a development method. Not a refinement method. He has said himself that if a tree were to be shown for example that you would stop hedging and use traditional methods, pinching, etc, for a couple years to refine the tree. And then at some point put it back into hedging mode so that it can gain health and vigor again. See he’s understands that you don’t need to just do one thing to a tree. That you can adjust your approach based on “what you’re trying to accomplish”

Well, I can see thickening as you’re letting it grow out, then cutting back, repeat. It is worth noting though I’m sure it alread has been noted, that Walter espouses the hedge pruning method as a development method. Not a refinement method. He has said himself that if a tree were to be shown for example that you would stop hedging and use traditional methods, pinching, etc, for a couple years to refine the tree. And then at some point put it back into hedging mode so that it can gain health and vigor again. See he’s understands that you don’t need to just do one thing to a tree. That you can adjust your approach based on “what you’re trying to accomplish”

i don’t believe Walter pinches. Only hedges. I agree that they are all tools in bag for me.

 

[Adair M]

i don’t believe Walter pinches. Only hedges. I agree that they are all tools in bag for me.
View attachment 275314

With the leaves on the tree, you can’t see the structure.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

i don’t believe Walter pinches. Only hedges. I agree that they are all tools in bag for me.
View attachment 275314

Not talking about what he did or didn’t do, talking about what he said.

 

[BobbyLane]

this tree is very nice too and apparently without hedge pruning

yeh its one of my favourites in Sandev's collection.
if you watched the earlier case study videos, where this tree was discussed, Walter acknowledges that Sandev uses a different approach than his own to produce trees like this.

but as we know, there are indeed different ways of doing things

 

[Walter Pall]

this tree is very nice too and apparently without hedge pruning

Yes, without hedge prunung. And in the video I tell Sebastijan that he lost a few years and and a lot of cool ramification for using a method which is not the best for development. - pinching. The Emperor won a major award at the Trophy was done with hedge pruning in a much shorter time than Sebastijan's tree. Both tree were just stumps without any small branches eight years ago.




See the same tree in my workshop in 2011, seven years before the upper image. Now show me how you get this kind of devlopment in seven years with conventional methods.

 

[BobbyLane]

@Djtommy

which one is more dense/ramified?

 

[Walter Pall]

Same tree 60 minutes earlier. Here you can see how we let the tree grow freely after the third cut in July/August. The long shoots are then pruned like a hedge and afterwards ccarefully edited with fine scissors.

 

[Djtommy]

test

 

[leatherback]

Here you can see how we let the tree grow freely after the third cut in July/August. The long shoots are then pruned like a hedge and afterwards ccarefully edited with fine scissors.

Haha, cool defoliation tool!

 

[Maloghurst]

With the leaves on the tree, you can’t see the structure.

Not talking about what he did or didn’t do, talking about what he said.

I’m not advocating hedging
If you look at my first post it’s screenshot from a conversation where Walter states to me that hedging causes branches to thicken (one of Bjorns issue with hedging). Seems they agree on this.
The second is a screenshot where Walter states that he “only hedges never pinches” in response to Mike saying that Walter pinches.
Everyone is comparing Kokofu trees but look at some of Sergios natural looking trees which could not be achieved through hedge pruning imo.

 

[Walter Pall]

"Sergios natural looking trees"

Which trees are you talking about. What Sergio?

 

[Maloghurst]

They are just two different style/method I like yours and his. I shouldn’t have mentioned anyone’s name here. I don’t want to drag anyone into this conversation so I’m going to leave this thread alone

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Also consider this: the Japanese are very good at taking a product/idea and building upon it, perfecting it. They took over the American automobile market by making cars better and cheaper than the American ones. If there’s a better way, they’ll find it and perfect it.

Terrible analogy, Adair. Besides, you give Japan far too much credit.

Japan's automobile production model, widely attributed as the idea of an American--William Edwards Deming--is vastly different in scope and nature to the art form of miniature trees.

Yes, Japan's ethic of hard work and attention to detail may in fact be superior to many--but not all--in the western world, but their lack of broad-mindedness, ingenuity and creativity has severly held them back. It's retarded their growth. Their Bonsai industry is just one of many other industries in a long-term, slow recession.

This godlike 'fix it' quality inherent and exclusive to the Japanese that you speak of: If your statements are true, then why have many other countries including China and South Korea, rapidly gobbled up Japanese market share for various exports, including automobiles, over the last several years??

At least it's encouraging to read that most bnut posters are logical, and agree that Walter's hedge pruning technique has just as much, if not more merit than the old Japanese way of doing it. His results prove it.

Now Adair, if you would, please do me a favor: politely remind Bjorn where he lives. He sounds lost, perhaps he forgot he moved? In case he did, let him know our American Bonsai doesn't do hard and fast rules.

 

[coh]

So @Walter Pall , if you care to indulge a direct question. Perhaps you've addressed this elsewhere but I don't remember seeing it.

Based on your experience with both methods, if one were to obtain 2 identical trees and treat one with your hedge pruning method and the other with "standard" methods, after say 10 years, how far ahead would you think the hedge tree would be in terms of ramification and potential showability? 1 year? 2? 5?

Note by standard methods I don't mean bud pinching which is done on "finished" trees, but rather the technique of allowing shoots to extend, then manually cutting back individual shoots to a specific number of nodes.