Big trunk bend on Curl-Leaf Mountain Mahogany

[GreatBasinBonsai]

The trunk diameter on this Curlleaf mountain mahogany (cercocarpus ledifolius) is about 4 inches or so, and it's got about a 3 foot tall straight section that I'd like to put some curve into slowly, perhaps over a few years. I'm not even sure if this can physically be done, the wood is extremely hard and brittle with low water mobility, but unless I do it, it will be aesthetically blah...

I recall seeing a video of someone (perhaps Mauro Štemberger?) bending an even larger trunk, using raffia, large gauge copper wire running vertically and electrical tape, but I just can't find that video... does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or something similar?

Or what would you suggest? I am considering hollowing out some of that deadwood, which maybe you can see in the photo running vertically. And then wrapping it with a bunch of raffia, some large wires running vertically and probably electrical tape also, and then using a C-clamp and some guy wires to slowly begin bending it down, almost into a U shape, pretty extreme bend, perhaps over the course of two years or so…

Anyway I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this. How have you gone about bending very large trunks? maybe if anyone has a link or two to some video or social media post or whatever involving very large trunk bends, that'd be great too.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[pandacular]

I recall seeing a video of someone (perhaps Mauro Štemberger?) bending an even larger trunk, using raffia, large gauge copper wire running vertically and electrical tape, but I just can't find that video... does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or something similar?

Was the tree a conifer? If so, it’s a completely different ballgame. I’m not aware of techniques that would allow that sort of bend on a broadleaf tree.

 

[rockm]

Drastic bends in broadleaf deciduous trees is not done with wire and force. The wood on deciduous trees is very brittle compared to conifers. Using force and torque to bend it usually snaps it off with disastrous results. The thicker the wood, the more it will resist any bending. I don't know why you want to bend that trunk anyway. It's pretty nice and has a lot of natural character.

Hard pruning and regrowth is the path to putting movement into deciduous trees. If this were mine, I wouldn't worry about trying to bend anything drastically.

 

[PonderingSage:]

I second above . I imagine mahogany behaves, a lot like sage, being a dry climate tree I’ve had a really limited success, bending sage. If it’s mostly dead, you could soak that wood for a couple days, wrapped in wet raffia and tape and then try to wire and bend. Tom vuong has a video about doing this.
That tree, at least from the photos, seems to have nice subtle movement

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I second above . I imagine mahogany behaves, a lot like sage, being a dry climate tree I’ve had a really limited success, bending sage.

I agree. I have played around with mountain mahogany on the west coast, and it behaves similar to a manzanita. Touchy roots that will not stand prolonged wet conditions. Hard brittle wood.

I personally wouldn't touch that deadwood - it looks very natural and defines the tree, IMHO. Instead I would focus on getting the tree as strong as possible and pushing the foliage back to your trunk so that you can eliminate the overthick branches on the top of the tree. From your photos, I see two possible directions that you might take the tree... but it is difficult to assess in 2D.

[EDIT] Let me just add... they do best in alkaline soils. Stay away from anything that will lower soil pH - loamy soils, peat moss, etc. [/EDIT]

 

[GreatBasinBonsai]

Thanks so much guys. Yes the video was a conifer, probably a juniper of some kind…

I've been mulling it over the last couple months, contemplating a bunjin style tree and not doing the bend. And yes, totally, if there were any tree out there that would break from a radical bend, it would be a mahogany.

I guess what I'm curious about, is whether this or any broadleaf tree, at a cellular level, could handle SLOWLY being bent? I mean, even over two or three years with several spaced-apart micro adjustments by using a (properly cushioned with raffia, wire, electrical tape etc) guy-wire system. Or, would it just eventually build up a ton of pressure and snap? Like a year in?

Anyway thanks so much, I'm probably just going to do the bunjin thing and not attempt to bend, but still a little curious...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Well... my golden rule of bonsai is always start at the bottom and work up - because the bottom is the most important part of the tree and the most difficult part to change. It is hard to really evaluate your tree with the base of the trunk and the surface roots buried in the snow However any time I see a tree like this I immediately wonder whether it would be better to embrace what the tree is already giving you - versus trying to force it into something it isn't. For example, even if you WERE able to bend the tree, where would you end up, and would it be better than what you started with? Because the lower trunk is so straight, I would (if it were my tree) build the tree out of that beautiful deadwood that creates such a nice line. Consider a slant style design where the tree is naturally leaning over - rather than trying to force the tree into some sort of bend.

 

[ShadyStump]

I'm just here because I LOVE these trees.
I'm wondering where you're at that you have a curl leaf popping up on the fence line. Adding a general location to your profile will help avoid being asked constantly.

No, that tree will absolutely NOT bend as is.
There's a technique involving sawing a notch in the trunk just deep enough to allow the trunk to bend to close the notch on itself. Then you treat the cut similarly to a graft. The key to success is to ensure that the inner layers under the bark - cambium, phloem, and I'm totally spacing the other one right now - to align, and heal together. It would be several years before they build up enough wood to hold the position on its own. To create flowing natural looking curves you'd have to do many notches, and curl leaf grow rather slowly. In your case you'd also have a hell of a time saving that beautiful deadwood if you tried this technique.

So, yes, it's possible, but in this situation not recommended. Each notch cut is chance for failure, so it'd be safest to do one at a time. You'd wind up spending 10 years trying to put a curve in a trunk with a strong possibility of it going very wrong.
@Bonsai Nut is correct here. Just lean into the tree's nature. It and you will both be happier for it.

 

[GreatBasinBonsai]

Thanks guys for talking me off the ledge! Haha

Yeah stylistically, I was torn between attempting some kind of a bend and just letting it be. I had a kind of a vision of what the bend would do to the overall design/trunk line, and I got sort of fixated on that. But actually I hadn't considered the leaning approach, which is probably going to be perfect. So thanks for that advice. And yes, the dead wood is a nice feature that I would probably be foolish for screwing around with…

So, I've tried to add my location to my profile but can't figure out how to do it? I'm in Ogden Utah, and I collected the tree a couple years ago. Yes they are beautiful; I'm kind of obsessed with them.

 

[ShadyStump]

but can't figure out how to do it

Tap the 3 lines in the top left corner, then tap your username. That will take you to your profile.

BTW, my brother was born in Provo. I'm not completely unfamiliar with the area.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Absolutely no idea of scale here but this looks like a full size tree in the wild, like one of those 'wish I could collect this' posts,

I would keep it how it is, looks awesome and realistic

Ps please provide some scale reference so I can how big or small this tree actually is

 

[GreatBasinBonsai]

It's big. Almost too big, maybe 7 feet tall as it is right now- by pushing some of the foliage down lower and wiring, it could be about six, then slanting it, it would still be about 4- 5 feet tall. Perhaps part of my motivation to bend the trunk was to make it less freakishly tall.

 

[ShadyStump]

It's big. Almost too big, maybe 7 feet tall as it is right now- by pushing some of the foliage down lower and wiring, it could be about six, then slanting it, it would still be about 4- 5 feet tall. Perhaps part of my motivation to bend the trunk was to make it less freakishly tall.

Have you tried trimming it back, see how far down it'll bud back?

 

[leatherback]

can you get buds to pop on the trunk with this species?

 

[GreatBasinBonsai]

I have not tried any styling or trimming yet, it's been just sitting there recovering after collection which was two years ago. I have heard that they will back bud, but I'm not really sure on how old of wood...