Beginner question - Is this Pine hopeless?

souvik1811

Sapling
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Bangalore, India
Hello Bonsai gurus,

After the sad demise of my last pine (thread - https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/is-my-pine-dying.66907/), I eagerly wanted to try another one. I found an online store selling Japanese Black Pines (they are very rare here, and not available at most offline nurseries) and decided to gift myself one for my birthday. In order to save some growing seasons, I asked for a large specimen, and one with some movement in the trunk.

What I received yesterday is this!! In hindsight, I should probably have ordered a younger tree with more styling options. It would have been much cheaper also.
1736480228883.png

It seems to have been pre-wired into the more commercial S-curve shape, resulting in deep wire scars. The bend is too high up on the trunk to my taste. There is little to no taper. In fact, the wire constriction in the S-curve portion seems to have fattened that part up rather than the base of the trunk, resulting in some inverse taper as well. There are three branches way up on the top which seem to be vigorous, but the branches at the bottom are very sparse or with no needles at all. I am at a total loss for design options. I have been considering the following options, but any advice would be really helpful and appreciated.

1. Cut off the top with the curve: In this scenario, I would remove the top as highlighted in red, and let the branches highlighted in green become new leaders. Hopefully, with heavy fertilization, it would then back-bud and give more shoots after the cut. They say that a pine's energy is in the roots and not in the foliage, so I am hoping the tree can recover from such large foliage removal.

1736480710191.png

However, I would prefer to re-use the top and I was wondering if I could air layer it to have the curve starting close to the root base. I have air-layered ficuses before, but I have read that it can be very difficult on JBPs. If the air layer takes moths to root, should I have to thin out the top foliage to balance the energy - Or else do I risk losing the bottom branches in the meantime?

2. Keep only the top foliage and style it into a literati: In this scenario, I might not need to need to thin out the foliage on the top, as the three branches on the top are more or less equal in foliage mass. And I could just remove/jin the bottom branches. But I am wondering if it would be possible to bend this thick trunk into something aesthetic. I might have to source some rafia in that case? What do I do about the inverse taper?

Any other suggestions would also be welcome. Or do you think it is really hopeless material, and should probably be planted in the ground and forgotten about? :(
 
It looks like the seller was trying to get rid of his/her mistakes.:mad:

All of your options are possible but will take plenty of patience and time to achieve anything good from that tree.
Layering JBP is not as hard as some have made out. We had a post from Indonesia (I think?) showing a young JBP layered in just a few months so you may also find it quicker and easier than some in colder climates?
Pines are more flexible than many other species so you should be able to bend that trunk without too much trouble. You should only need binding if you are trying for more severe bends. There's plenty of options other than raffia to use to protect trunks when bending. We've used PVC electrical tape, duct tape, hessian strips, strips of bicycle tube, vet wrap (used to hold bandages on animals). Anything that's firm but flexible will do the job and most of the above are much easier to apply than traditional raffia.
There's not much you can do about the inverse taper now that it has started. One option would be to damage the lower trunk to make it swell up more than the bit that's already thick.
 
Safe option: reduce first whorl to 1 short shoot and current leader. The trunk is thin enough to get some reasonable movement on it, so do that. Then, arrange the tree so that the low shoot you kept is higher than the leader, lay the tree down if necessary. JBP are strongly apically dominant, this will make the tree put its energy into the low shoot and you keep the current leader as a sacrifice for now.

Risky option: at the beginning of the growing season, graft a strong shoot low down, 2 weeks later cut off everything above the first whorl and reduce that to 1 shoot.
 
Also, either put it in a large colander / pond basket and keep off the ground bench (I.e. on wire mesh) to force it to back root and give you some nebari, or put it in the ground or on the ground so it can grow some escape rootage to thicken the trunk. You can also do this after a season or two in the pond basket.
 
First, Happy Birthday! Purchasing bonsai or plants for bonsai is a fantastic form of self-love!

Don't you live in a tropical region? If so, I think the question is less about styling but may be more about survival. JBP enjoy sub-tropical (southern Japan) and can even do well in some Mediterranean climates (southern California) that have cool winter temps down to the 50s. Does Bangalore have a cooler season? If you can provide that, you may be able to get away with growing JBP there. However, without that cool down your pine's health will eventually decline. You'll find the bonsai hobby a lot more rewarding if you choose species that thrive in your local conditions.
 
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It looks like the seller was trying to get rid of his/her mistakes.:mad:

All of your options are possible but will take plenty of patience and time to achieve anything good from that tree.
Layering JBP is not as hard as some have made out. We had a post from Indonesia (I think?) showing a young JBP layered in just a few months so you may also find it quicker and easier than some in colder climates?
Pines are more flexible than many other species so you should be able to bend that trunk without too much trouble. You should only need binding if you are trying for more severe bends. There's plenty of options other than raffia to use to protect trunks when bending. We've used PVC electrical tape, duct tape, hessian strips, strips of bicycle tube, vet wrap (used to hold bandages on animals). Anything that's firm but flexible will do the job and most of the above are much easier to apply than traditional raffia.
There's not much you can do about the inverse taper now that it has started. One option would be to damage the lower trunk to make it swell up more than the bit that's already thick.
Thanks for the suggestions. Right now I am leaning towards the literati option. While checking by hand, the trunk seems to be still bendable, it will probably require a few coils of wire.
 
Ideally something recognizably bonsai-like in 3 years. :/
You have gotten a lot of good advice. Even if this pine never becomes a good tree, there is a lot of value in working with it and learning so that one day, when you buy a more expensive plant, you will have the expertise to care for it and to create a decent to good bonsai. One reason I have too many trees is because I still have a lot of the ones I bought to "learn on" and don't want to just discard them.
 
First, Happy Birthday! Purchasing bonsai or plants for bonsai is a fantastic form of self-love!

Don't you live in a tropical region? If so, I think the question is less about styling but may be more about survival. JBP enjoy sub-tropical (southern Japan) and can even do well in some Mediterranean climates (southern California) that have cool winter temps down to the 50s. Does Bangalore have a cooler season? If you can provide that, you may be able to get away with growing JBP there. However, without that cool down your pine's health will eventually decline. You'll find the bonsai hobby a lot more rewarding if you choose species that thrive in your local conditions.
Thanks!

I am clearly pushing my luck this time after the last pine died. At least I convinced myself not to order a maple :p. I heard JBPs can do well in some places in South east asia, so I thought I could give it a try.

Btw, winters here are about 60 degrees F minimum, which I am pretty sure is not cold enough! :|
 
Also, either put it in a large colander / pond basket and keep off the ground bench (I.e. on wire mesh) to force it to back root and give you some nebari, or put it in the ground or on the ground so it can grow some escape rootage to thicken the trunk. You can also do this after a season or two in the pond basket.

Thanks, I have a pond basket ready. Repotting planned for tomorrow.
 
You have gotten a lot of good advice. Even if this pine never becomes a good tree, there is a lot of value in working with it and learning so that one day, when you buy a more expensive plant, you will have the expertise to care for it and to create a decent to good bonsai. One reason I have too many trees is because I still have a lot of the ones I bought to "learn on" and don't want to just discard them.
Absolutely!!
 
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