Beginner Japanese black pine issues and repotting

[eugenev2]

Hi All,

Recently joined here at bonsai nut and looking for advise on my japanese black pine. I bought this tree in February this year, i live in South Africa with relatively high summer temperature (25 to 35 degrees Celsius on avg). Tree is mostly untouched since i bought it, i just added the wire to attempt the "cage wire" technique. So i'm a bit concerned regarding the yellowing tips of the needles, everything if read indicates either a fungus issue or possibly staying wet too long, so i've been considering repotting is in a colander with a fast draining medium, it's currently in what looks like 100% silica sand or something similar, which gets very hard when drying out. So any advice on what this issue could be, would be helpful plus whether I should attempt the repotting. I also add pictures of the candles, i'm not sure whether this is the right time to repot it. And then final question, i've seen the clear sap/resin occasionally forming on the tree, but i cannot see any holes or bugs on the tree, is this normal or should i investigate more thoroughly for bugs?

 

[eugenev2]

Sorry peeps bumping this thread, does anyone have advice or help based on above?

 

[sorce]

Odd this one seemed to have never come up under new posts.

Welcome to Crazy!

I think the fact that it's pumping sap out is a rather good sign, says the system is working.

Sounds the soil can prove problematic over time, and may be what's causing these slight problems.

Sohemer, (southern hemisphere person) when is that thing supposed to start growing? A month or so?

I reckon now may be a rather appropriate time to repot.

@Shibui is the warmer sohem climate voice of reason.

Sorce

 

[eugenev2]

Odd this one seemed to have never come up under new posts.

Welcome to Crazy!

I think the fact that it's pumping sap out is a rather good sign, says the system is working.

Sounds the soil can prove problematic over time, and may be what's causing these slight problems.

Sohemer, (southern hemisphere person) when is that thing supposed to start growing? A month or so?

I reckon now may be a rather appropriate time to repot.

@Shibui is the warmer sohem climate voice of reason.

Sorce

@sorce, thanks for the reply, glad to scratch the sap of the worry list

Yea see, i don't know when it is supposed to start growing, as from my perspective it grew more during the winter and autumn months than during the spring/summer months, but i know very little about pines besides everything i've read so far ie this is my very first Japanese black pine...or any pine for that matter. To add on to this not a a whole lot of people (nurseries and such) growing it in my area either, not sure if its the 1 753 m altitude or the warmer climate, sources say my area is considered sub-tropical climate, there are ponderosa pines and another (i haven't been able to nail the name down yet) growing in the area though. I have noticed that people closer to the coast grow Japanese black pines, but that climate is considered Mediterranean, so somewhat different. So i'm hoping someone can provide some guidance with the repotting and such

 

[sorce]

Where's it from?

It almost sounds like it's still in a process of understanding a change in hemisphere.

The growth should be quite recognizable as a pattern which it seems not to have settled in yet.

I reckon observation may be a good prescription for a season or 2 at least

Grow local!

If you can sniff it from your porch it will work the best!

Sorce

 

[SeanS]

@sorce, thanks for the reply, glad to scratch the sap of the worry list

Yea see, i don't know when it is supposed to start growing, as from my perspective it grew more during the winter and autumn months than during the spring/summer months, but i know very little about pines besides everything i've read so far ie this is my very first Japanese black pine...or any pine for that matter. To add on to this not a a whole lot of people (nurseries and such) growing it in my area either, not sure if its the 1 753 m altitude or the warmer climate, sources say my area is considered sub-tropical climate, there are ponderosa pines and another (i haven't been able to nail the name down yet) growing in the area though. I have noticed that people closer to the coast grow Japanese black pines, but that climate is considered Mediterranean, so somewhat different. So i'm hoping someone can provide some guidance with the repotting and such

@eugenev2 what part of SA are you in?

My JBPs grow very little/zero in winter. Once things start hotting up around early spring they start growing. One of mine (of 6) has started showing some new needle growth on the central candle on the main sacrifice, but nothing else just yet.

I'm in Johannesburg.

 

[Shibui]

In warmer climates JBP can have several growth spurts each year. The strongest is usually in spring but we often get a second burst of candle elongation right at the end of summer. Sometimes those candles even open needles Growth generally stops through most of winter but candles can start to elongate from the end of winter.

Yellowing needles is relatively common on JBP here. Usually it is related to nutrition and seems to be aggravated by being root bound. Liquid fertilizer usually sees needles turn green again in a few weeks. Even in the cooler hills of Southern Australia JBP do not really go fully dormant so light fertilizer through winter makes a big difference to spring growth. I feed all evergreens here once a month right through winter.
Yellow needles CAN also be from root problems. Here it has been from too much water which also seems to be aggravated by being root bound. I've lost a couple of old red pines over the last 10 years.

We seem to have a range of opinions on repotting JBP here in Southern Australia. I usually repot mine after I've done the deciduous so that's around the time maples come into leaf (rationale is that's when I have time and it does not seem to worry the pines) but I know others who swear by repotting pines before any deciduous so mid through to late winter. That tells me that JBP are not really fussy. Repot any time from late winter through to mid spring. There are a new group of bonsai people who have tried and had good success with repotting in late summer and autumn. maybe JBP can be repotted all year round???

Good luck with nursing the color back into the needles.

 

[eugenev2]

@eugenev2 what part of SA are you in?

My JBPs grow very little/zero in winter. Once things start hotting up around early spring they start growing. One of mine (of 6) has started showing some new needle growth on the central candle on the main sacrifice, but nothing else just yet.

I'm in Johannesburg.

Hi @SeanS, i'm in Johannesburg as well, morningside area.
So more details i bought the tree in December so early/middle summer, so i don't have any spring comparisons yet, but the tree didn't show any activity. I read that it is a good practice to more heavily fertilize during autumn, which i started doing and most of the growth occurred since then (new needles on trunk pic 1 and new tiny buds in pic4 actually started appearing during the start of the winter months, candles pushing pic2 gradually occurred during autumn/winter). So i'm not sure if it was a delayed growth spurt (based on previous hot temperatures) or related to fertilizer regime.

But in your opinion is it a good time to repot or rather wait until after the deciduous trees come into leaf as @Shibui suggested?
As i just want to confirm its not the soil medium that is the problem here.

 

[eugenev2]

In warmer climates JBP can have several growth spurts each year. The strongest is usually in spring but we often get a second burst of candle elongation right at the end of summer. Sometimes those candles even open needles Growth generally stops through most of winter but candles can start to elongate from the end of winter.

Yellowing needles is relatively common on JBP here. Usually it is related to nutrition and seems to be aggravated by being root bound. Liquid fertilizer usually sees needles turn green again in a few weeks. Even in the cooler hills of Southern Australia JBP do not really go fully dormant so light fertilizer through winter makes a big difference to spring growth. I feed all evergreens here once a month right through winter.
Yellow needles CAN also be from root problems. Here it has been from too much water which also seems to be aggravated by being root bound. I've lost a couple of old red pines over the last 10 years.

We seem to have a range of opinions on repotting JBP here in Southern Australia. I usually repot mine after I've done the deciduous so that's around the time maples come into leaf (rationale is that's when I have time and it does not seem to worry the pines) but I know others who swear by repotting pines before any deciduous so mid through to late winter. That tells me that JBP are not really fussy. Repot any time from late winter through to mid spring. There are a new group of bonsai people who have tried and had good success with repotting in late summer and autumn. maybe JBP can be repotted all year round???

Good luck with nursing the color back into the needles.

@Shibui, Thanks for the tips and advice. The fertilizer you suggested, is this organic or chemical? I have both, although i started moving over to more organic and slow release fertilizer, as it suits the life style more.​

 

[SeanS]

Hi @SeanS, i'm in Johannesburg as well, morningside area.
So more details i bought the tree in December so early/middle summer, so i don't have any spring comparisons yet, but the tree didn't show any activity. I read that it is a good practice to more heavily fertilize during autumn, which i started doing and most of the growth occurred since then (new needles on trunk pic 1 and new tiny buds in pic4 actually started appearing during the start of the winter months, candles pushing pic2 gradually occurred during autumn/winter). So i'm not sure if it was a delayed growth spurt (based on previous hot temperatures) or related to fertilizer regime.

But in your opinion is it a good time to repot or rather wait until after the deciduous trees come into leaf as @Shibui suggested?
As i just want to confirm its not the soil medium that is the problem here.

I’m in Broadacres, very close to Dainfern.

Repot once you start seeing little needle “spikes” appearing on the candles, but before the little needles start “standing erect” from the candle. There is a brief period just before the needles actually start growing where they are visible along the candles but are still sort of flat against the sides of the candle. Once they start growing they almost seem to separate from the side of the candle and actually look like little short needles.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks for the tips and advice. The fertilizer you suggested, is this organic or chemical? I have both, although i started moving over to more organic and slow release fertilizer, as it suits the life style more.

You can use whatever makes you warm and fuzzy but the trees don't care if the nutrients come from chemical or organic sources. They only see nutrients and none of my trees can read labels anyway.
In practice I use several different fertilizers, some chemical based and some organic based. For me it is more about the range and depth of the nutrients they contain and ease of use and application. Just make sure your choice has the full range of nutrients plants require in a ratio reasonably close to what plants require.

 

[eugenev2]

Hi All,
So i half bare rooted this one early spring purely because i'm being cautious. The meduim the pine was in was a severely compacted sand based meduim that forced it to start creating a mat of roots at the bottom. The new meduim is a apl mix and the new growth looks a little better. So looking for advice on when to do the other half of the root ball, it's still pushing sap, but the actual vigor of growth seems to be a bit lackluster. If read some are able to do the other half within the same growing season or is it better to wait until next spring?

 

[Potawatomi13]

but the actual vigor of growth seems to be a bit lackluster.

Tree still recovering from root damage of repotting. WAIT until vigorous growth returns! Then repot NEXT late Winter/Spring after this. Except seedlings/very young pines these not repotted 2 years in a row.

 

[Potawatomi13]

So i half bare rooted this one early spring

What year this was done?

 

[eugenev2]

What year this was done?

It was done now in September 2022 early spring (for the southern hemisphere)

 

[Potawatomi13]

It was done now in September 2022 early spring (for the southern hemisphere)

OK. If next year 2023 growth very vigorous then repot earliest 2024 Spring.

 

[Shibui]

I'm in a similar climate and would have no hesitation in doing a full repot of JBP in spring but I understand reluctance for beginners, especially with all the doom and gloom about pines posted on the net.
If your tree is still looking healthy after this summer I would do the other half next spring.

 

[eugenev2]

I'm in a similar climate and would have no hesitation in doing a full repot of JBP in spring but I understand reluctance for beginners, especially with all the doom and gloom about pines posted on the net.
If your tree is still looking healthy after this summer I would do the other half next spring.

Thanks i will keep an eye on it. The fear stems from lack of knowledge, a struggle to find Japanese black pines locally as tree imports have become so hard that most nurseries have simply just given up. But also it is currently my most expensive tree and would prefer not to kill it off.
Luckily i have some seedling starting to pop off, which i will be a little more aggressive with, so i'll try out some of your suggestions when they get bigger

 

[SeanS]

Thanks i will keep an eye on it. The fear stems from lack of knowledge, a struggle to find Japanese black pines locally as tree imports have become so hard that most nurseries have simply just given up. But also it is currently my most expensive tree and would prefer not to kill it off.
Luckily i have some seedling starting to pop off, which i will be a little more aggressive with, so i'll try out some of your suggestions when they get bigger

Not sure which nurseries you expect to be importing JBP. All locally available nursery stock JBP will be locally grown. Imported trees will be actual bonsai, from bonsai importers. Local bonsai nurseries definitely won’t be importing JBP.

 

[eugenev2]

Not sure which nurseries you expect to be importing JBP. All locally available nursery stock JBP will be locally grown. Imported trees will be actual bonsai, from bonsai importers. Local bonsai nurseries definitely won’t be importing JBP.

Any really. Most of the nurseries that import require certification themselves as well as their suppliers, the trees need to be shipped in specific sterilized media and kept in storage for a time, then any sign of pests and the trees get destroyed immediately. They require additional insurances in event of any of these possibilities. Which tends to lead to only the most serious bonsai nurseries still importing trees. As its easier to grow locally and (possibly) more profitable.
I think I should have phrased it differently, rather the ones that do have they generally have limited stock of the cheaper self grown and the material sell out fast