Bald cypress left in the ground for thks season...
- Thread starter Matt B
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Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Hmmmm, I might have waited until next winter.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Yup
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I would have used a wider and more shallow pot. Don't try to change the pot now, just allow it to recover. Do not repot, or disturb the roots for 2 growing seasons.
The deed is done.
Hopefully it will survive. There's a decent chance it will. Time will tell.
About choosing a front. I choose one right away, but I leave branches to allow the front to change, as it is normal to change the front several times in development. Front to back is often the switch. Also rotating the front left or right. And even a little change in the the trunk off vertical can significantly change which is the best front.
So choosing a front is a good exercise, but getting "fixed" on your choice of front is often counter productive.
The deed is done.
Hopefully it will survive. There's a decent chance it will. Time will tell.
About choosing a front. I choose one right away, but I leave branches to allow the front to change, as it is normal to change the front several times in development. Front to back is often the switch. Also rotating the front left or right. And even a little change in the the trunk off vertical can significantly change which is the best front.
So choosing a front is a good exercise, but getting "fixed" on your choice of front is often counter productive.
Thank you all for your wisdom. I know you have to hate giving specific advice based on years of experience and watching people do the exact opposite of what you told them to. I figured that I owed you a more detailed explanation for me doing dumb sh!+ despite being told not to by people who know much more than I do.
Part of what motivated me to make the collection right now is the the tree sat on a large piece of commercial property owned by an old friend. He had given me prior permission to collect from there, and I decided to give him a call on Tuesday to check in with him. While we were shooting the breeze, he let me know there was a real possibility that he might be selling the property to a developer this year. This moved up my timeline a bit, and I figured that I had better do it now than find out he sold the property in August and be at a real disadvantage.
Again, thanks for the guidance, and I'll keep you updated after I know its going to pull through ok.
Part of what motivated me to make the collection right now is the the tree sat on a large piece of commercial property owned by an old friend. He had given me prior permission to collect from there, and I decided to give him a call on Tuesday to check in with him. While we were shooting the breeze, he let me know there was a real possibility that he might be selling the property to a developer this year. This moved up my timeline a bit, and I figured that I had better do it now than find out he sold the property in August and be at a real disadvantage.
Again, thanks for the guidance, and I'll keep you updated after I know its going to pull through ok.
Zach Smith
Omono
Defoliate. The tree will be under stress waiting for new feeders to develop, despite the spongelike nature of BC sapwood. You should see new buds in one to two weeks, then the critical point comes as shoots develop. If they push on past about 3" in length, you're likely out of the woods. If they stall at 3", the tree may not make it.
Johnathan
Omono
I'll continue to play devil's advocate...
After I defoliated like @Zach Smith says, If this was mine I'd submerge the pot into a dish tub, oil pan or something. Keep it sitting in a tub of water at all times.......
But thats just me
After I defoliated like @Zach Smith says, If this was mine I'd submerge the pot into a dish tub, oil pan or something. Keep it sitting in a tub of water at all times.......
But thats just me
Should I desolate by pinching individual leaves off the shoots, or break/clip off the shoots at the trunk? Or clip the shoots short?
Johnathan, I know cypress trees have to be very different from most trees, because cypress seem to grow fine in fine silt underwater, conditions which would kill just about any other tree used for bonsai in a week. Do you think that this is the preferred state for cypress? They are used for landscape ornamentals here and seem to grow fine nowhere near water, yet when I see them in natural conditions here, they always grow in clumps or domes around sinkholes that have formed swamps.
Johnathan, I know cypress trees have to be very different from most trees, because cypress seem to grow fine in fine silt underwater, conditions which would kill just about any other tree used for bonsai in a week. Do you think that this is the preferred state for cypress? They are used for landscape ornamentals here and seem to grow fine nowhere near water, yet when I see them in natural conditions here, they always grow in clumps or domes around sinkholes that have formed swamps.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Submerging is not the cure all for BC. It can actually slow them down. They grow in water because they CAN not necessarily because they WANT to. University studies have shown that sapling sized BC grow best in seasonally flooded areas and not constant submersion. Also, developing roots benefit from Oxygen exchange. If this were mine, I would get it into a bonsai soil mix that is equal parts regular bonsai soil and potting soil. That potting soil will retain water, while the bonsai soil will allow some drainage.
By removing all foliage, break it off at the trunk. Don' clip. You don't want ANY foliage putting pressure on the non-existent root system. Follow Zach's advice. He's been doing this for decades. He knows what he's talking about--he's in Lousiana --BC prime time...
I defoliated this morning before I left for work, and gave it a good watering. I worry a bit about pulling the tree out again to change the soil. Do you think the additional organics are worth disturbing it again? With normal trees, I would worry about the potting soil slowing drainage in a deep pot, but again, cypress is a different beast. The pot is deep by design. The bottom of the root system is near the bottom of the pot. I didn't saw anything off the rootsfrom the photos but about 3 inches of that bottop taproot. I figured that more root area will increase its ability to put off new feeders and its chances of making it through the recovery.
If I am wrong,, and sawing it flat across the bottom, and putting into a different soil iand container is the right move, let me know. Maybe rooting hormone?
If I am wrong,, and sawing it flat across the bottom, and putting into a different soil iand container is the right move, let me know. Maybe rooting hormone?
Leo in N E Illinois
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@rockm has more experience with bald cypress than I, if he says changing the media one more time, I would do so, and do it right away. Normally I would say just don't mess with it any further. But only a few days have passed from collection to today.
For this tree, you are more or less done for the next couple years. In the future, when you collect bald cypress, always cut the root system flat, so that from the soil surface to the bottom of the root ball is less than 3 inches if at all possible. Done during dormant season collection, this usually is not a problem. BC are very good at sending out new roots. The reason for the 3 inch depth is most bonsai pots made, are less than 4 inches for interior depth. If you want to avoid the expense of purchasing custom made pots, you need to get a shallow, flat root system. Cutting to a 3 inch deep root system allows an inch of depth for new roots. It is a practical concern. You can always go back and re-saw the root system flatter, several years after collection. But if you can get it right at the first go, you can save several years of training before moving to a bonsai pot.
For this tree, you are more or less done for the next couple years. In the future, when you collect bald cypress, always cut the root system flat, so that from the soil surface to the bottom of the root ball is less than 3 inches if at all possible. Done during dormant season collection, this usually is not a problem. BC are very good at sending out new roots. The reason for the 3 inch depth is most bonsai pots made, are less than 4 inches for interior depth. If you want to avoid the expense of purchasing custom made pots, you need to get a shallow, flat root system. Cutting to a 3 inch deep root system allows an inch of depth for new roots. It is a practical concern. You can always go back and re-saw the root system flatter, several years after collection. But if you can get it right at the first go, you can save several years of training before moving to a bonsai pot.
I wrote directly to Zach on this tree, as @rockm had outed him as the resident BC expert, and he was kind enough to offer his expertise. He told me to defoliate, leave it in the existing pot and soil, and place it in the shade directly on the ground (probably to assist drainage). Aside from these steps, and watering, I'm to studiously ignore the tree. Right now it's all about recovery and keeping it alive until it can grow a new root system.
That is great advice on the chopping. The reason I didn't chop this tree flatter is because I had to collect it at an inopportune time for the tree. I figured any work I did to the roots would only serve to weaken the tree and reduce its chances of a strong recovery. i realize that this probably set me back a bit, but whats done is done. Going back in right now would probably be a bad idea. Any that I collect in the future, I will chop them flat.
I wish it were possible for me to update the thread for progression, due to the nature of the hobby, it will be fairly infrequent at best. LOL
I will let you all know when I'm sure the tree will pull through, then occasionally as it bulks up the foliage.
That is great advice on the chopping. The reason I didn't chop this tree flatter is because I had to collect it at an inopportune time for the tree. I figured any work I did to the roots would only serve to weaken the tree and reduce its chances of a strong recovery. i realize that this probably set me back a bit, but whats done is done. Going back in right now would probably be a bad idea. Any that I collect in the future, I will chop them flat.
I wish it were possible for me to update the thread for progression, due to the nature of the hobby, it will be fairly infrequent at best. LOL
I will let you all know when I'm sure the tree will pull through, then occasionally as it bulks up the foliage.
Last edited:
Johnathan
Omono
I believe this is to help keep the temperature as steady as possible.
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