Bald Cypress group progression

[Maiden69]

Amazing growth in the time frame . If you don’t mind . Questions from a northerner with no BC experience . Zone 4 I planted one in the yard . We are at the cold limit . See if it survives . Might try some for bonsai . I understand they survive in swamps in standing water . But still am amazed you grow them . In pots permanently in water . Do they use that much water it’s necessary . Or is it just for rapid growth .

They use a LOT of water, but I keep them in water as a means to accelerate growth. I do think that you should remove them from standing water once you have the secondary branching done. If kept in water the secondary and tertiary branching will thicken to fast. I am not there yet, as I plan on chopping all of them this year as I want a slightly smaller size tree from all except the big one.

Once in refinement I will most likely use 100% akadama and set up a zone with 3 watering times a day to see how they do. I know Ryan's BC forest is in 100% akadama and he don't keep it flooded, just got to keep a sharper eye here in Texas with the lack of rain.

Is there a limit to water level . As in you only soak the bottom 1/4 or 1/3 . Do roots grow in the water level or just above water . Will they rot roots eventually . In the water . Sorry complete newbie to this left in standing water idea . Part of my interest is . For native northern silver maple . I have a collected one that seems to have incredible . Water needs . They also will grow in standing water .

I would say no, there's no limit. I didn't have anything deeper when I repot them last year, if not I would have kept the water at or slightly below the soil level.

I wouldn't do this exact technique with other trees, but I have had to keep my liquidambar orientalis and my luma apiculata with a shallow dish under the grow bag as they were wilting by the time my second watering started. I did notice some dark roots right at the water level, but the roots above were very healthy and it prevented the tree from drying out too much in our heat. I may have prevented this by adding shade cloth, but at the expense of faster growth.

Thinking of trying your technique . I’m thinking BC may survive in my yard but might be out of reach as bonsai . In my climate

You can try one, make a small cold frame for it when it get's too cold or bring it into a unheated garage/shed in the winter. Main thing is to not forget watering ir during the winter, the roots don't like to be dry at all.

 

[Cajunrider]

They use a LOT of water, but I keep them in water as a means to accelerate growth. I do think that you should remove them from standing water once you have the secondary branching done. If kept in water the secondary and tertiary branching will thicken to fast. I am not there yet, as I plan on chopping all of them this year as I want a slightly smaller size tree from all except the big one.

Once in refinement I will most likely use 100% akadama and set up a zone with 3 watering times a day to see how they do. I know Ryan's BC forest is in 100% akadama and he don't keep it flooded, just got to keep a sharper eye here in Texas with the lack of rain.

I would say no, there's no limit. I didn't have anything deeper when I repot them last year, if not I would have kept the water at or slightly below the soil level.

I wouldn't do this exact technique with other trees, but I have had to keep my liquidambar orientalis and my luma apiculata with a shallow dish under the grow bag as they were wilting by the time my second watering started. I did notice some dark roots right at the water level, but the roots above were very healthy and it prevented the tree from drying out too much in our heat. I may have prevented this by adding shade cloth, but at the expense of faster growth.

You can try one, make a small cold frame for it when it get's too cold or bring it into a unheated garage/shed in the winter. Main thing is to not forget watering ir during the winter, the roots don't like to be dry at all.

I don’t know about the no limit part. When I go to the ponds and lakes, once the water gets above 30” there are no young BC smaller than 8-10” trunk. When it gets to 40” only the old giant trees remain. There are no juvenile trees there. The big ones must have grown there before the water level came up for whatever reason.

For me I just flood the trees to 1-2” below top soil level.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

They use a LOT of water, but I keep them in water as a means to accelerate growth. I do think that you should remove them from standing water once you have the secondary branching done. If kept in water the secondary and tertiary branching will thicken to fast. I am not there yet, as I plan on chopping all of them this year as I want a slightly smaller size tree from all except the big one.

Once in refinement I will most likely use 100% akadama and set up a zone with 3 watering times a day to see how they do. I know Ryan's BC forest is in 100% akadama and he don't keep it flooded, just got to keep a sharper eye here in Texas with the lack of rain.

I would say no, there's no limit. I didn't have anything deeper when I repot them last year, if not I would have kept the water at or slightly below the soil level.

I wouldn't do this exact technique with other trees, but I have had to keep my liquidambar orientalis and my luma apiculata with a shallow dish under the grow bag as they were wilting by the time my second watering started. I did notice some dark roots right at the water level, but the roots above were very healthy and it prevented the tree from drying out too much in our heat. I may have prevented this by adding shade cloth, but at the expense of faster growth.

You can try one, make a small cold frame for it when it get's too cold or bring it into a unheated garage/shed in the winter. Main thing is to not forget watering ir during the winter, the roots don't like to be dry at all.

Thanks for the info .still on the fence about BC here . Would have to survive freezing in winter . Thinking Dawn Redwood a better . Cold choice . Manly interested in the . Soak growing . And the robust results . Like I said . Might experiment .my large collected silver maple . Has crazy water consumption. Trying to figure out how I’ll ever . Water it enough I. A small pot . Going to have to go to a auto watering system . I noticed you use one . Anyway I appreciate the great info . Never realized how great BC is for bonsai . Until joining BNut .

 

[eugenev2]

They use a LOT of water, but I keep them in water as a means to accelerate growth. I do think that you should remove them from standing water once you have the secondary branching done. If kept in water the secondary and tertiary branching will thicken to fast. I am not there yet, as I plan on chopping all of them this year as I want a slightly smaller size tree from all except the big one.

Once in refinement I will most likely use 100% akadama and set up a zone with 3 watering times a day to see how they do. I know Ryan's BC forest is in 100% akadama and he don't keep it flooded, just got to keep a sharper eye here in Texas with the lack of rain.

I would say no, there's no limit. I didn't have anything deeper when I repot them last year, if not I would have kept the water at or slightly below the soil level.

I wouldn't do this exact technique with other trees, but I have had to keep my liquidambar orientalis and my luma apiculata with a shallow dish under the grow bag as they were wilting by the time my second watering started. I did notice some dark roots right at the water level, but the roots above were very healthy and it prevented the tree from drying out too much in our heat. I may have prevented this by adding shade cloth, but at the expense of faster growth.

You can try one, make a small cold frame for it when it get's too cold or bring it into a unheated garage/shed in the winter. Main thing is to not forget watering ir during the winter, the roots don't like to be dry at all.

Is standing in water the only factor in this accelerated growth or is the pot shape, fertilizer regime important here as well? Asking as i've seen a marked difference in my own by having it standing in a drip tray and filling up with water when ever it gets dry, but haven't gotten to the point yet where i essentially stick them in a pond. And the growth rate of this progression is so much more impressive than my own. Basically want to know whether almost submerging them vs frequent watering makes any difference?

Also are there any tips/tricks to help along the basal flare and fluting or is it simply a matter of time and care and crossed fingers?

 

[Maiden69]

Is standing in water the only factor in this accelerated growth or is the pot shape, fertilizer regime important here as well? Asking as i've seen a marked difference in my own by having it standing in a drip tray and filling up with water when ever it gets dry, but haven't gotten to the point yet where i essentially stick them in a pond. And the growth rate of this progression is so much more impressive than my own. Basically want to know whether almost submerging them vs frequent watering makes any difference?

Also are there any tips/tricks to help along the basal flare and fluting or is it simply a matter of time and care and crossed fingers?

I never let mine dry, if you look at the threads from @Mellow Mullet he leaves his in water for the growing season as well.

As far as fluting, that is very hard to achieve in a pot. You really need to let selective roots run long and thick for that area of the tree to swell like that. Basal flare can be accomplished by planting on top of a tile or wood screwing the tree to the tile from the bottom. If not the tree will push itself away neglecting the effect you would get and growing a pyramidal root system instead of a flat flared with is what increases the basal area.

To make a case about BCs in water all the time. The below pic is from one if the seedlings with 5 months of growth. The following pic is from a nursery bought 1 GAL tree with at least 1.5 years of growth. The GAL tree barely added any growth until I moved it into the water bucket. They were all feed the same with the exception of the seedlings being moved into water 3 months before the 1 GAL was.





Here you can see them side-by-side with the seedlings being 2 months since planted. I bought this bareroot so they probably germinated close to 4 months earlier.

 

[eugenev2]

I never let mine dry, if you look at the threads from @Mellow Mullet he leaves his in water for the growing season as well.

As far as fluting, that is very hard to achieve in a pot. You really need to let selective roots run long and thick for that area of the tree to swell like that. Basal flare can be accomplished by planting on top of a tile or wood screwing the tree to the tile from the bottom. If not the tree will push itself away neglecting the effect you would get and growing a pyramidal root system instead of a flat flared with is what increases the basal area.

To make a case about BCs in water all the time. The below pic is from one if the seedlings with 5 months of growth. The following pic is from a nursery bought 1 GAL tree with at least 1.5 years of growth. The GAL tree barely added any growth until I moved it into the water bucket. They were all feed the same with the exception of the seedlings being moved into water 3 months before the 1 GAL was.

View attachment 471502

View attachment 471503

Here you can see them side-by-side with the seedlings being 2 months since planted. I bought this bareroot so they probably germinated close to 4 months earlier.
View attachment 471504

Ah thanks good to know, i'll have to get a much bigger containers next growing season (as there is not much left of this one) to have it sit in water

 

[Matte91]

Great progress!

Will you recommend the same technique on redwoods, keeping them constantly in water?

 

[Cajunrider]

Great progress!

Will you recommend the same technique on redwoods, keeping them constantly in water?

No. That will kill them!

 

[Matte91]

What about using the technique with metasequoia?

 

[Cajunrider]

What about using the technique with metasequoia?

Not working either.

 

[Maiden69]

Great progress!

Will you recommend the same technique on redwoods, keeping them constantly in water?

I have no experience with either one of them... but I was also told that keeping my ficus in water all the time will kill them. If you have a tree you don't mind "losing" in case it fails, you can try it yourself and provide feedback here.

 

[Cajunrider]

I have no experience with either one of them... but I was also told that keeping my ficus in water all the time will kill them. If you have a tree you don't mind "losing" in case it fails, you can try it yourself and provide feedback here.

Well, I grew some redwood and metasequoia in the past. Their roots are sensitive to excessive moisture. As a matter of fact, I have killed some of them with root rots. If you check their growing environment, you will find that there are no cases of them growing in standing water. A quick search in Google will show you hundreds of pictures of them but there is none where they are in standing water. The pictures show them mostly in highland and hills near places with moisture in the air to provide water for these giant trees.

 

[Maiden69]

They are supposed to grow to zone 9, but I have not seen any close to me. The few I have seen are in the Dallas area, which is definitely cooler than ours.

 

[Lutonian]

Well, I grew some redwood and metasequoia in the past. Their roots are sensitive to excessive moisture. As a matter of fact, I have killed some of them with root rots. If you check their growing environment, you will find that there are no cases of them growing in standing water. A quick search in Google will show you hundreds of pictures of them but there is none where they are in standing water. The pictures show them mostly in highland and hills near places with moisture in the air to provide water for these giant trees.

here are some pictures of metasequoia growing in water (might be seasonal flooding im not sure) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/travel/2017-11/08/content_34267839.htm

you can google Water "Red Forest is located in Qingxi Country Park" for more pictures

​

 

[Cajunrider]

They are supposed to grow to zone 9, but I have not seen any close to me. The few I have seen are in the Dallas area, which is definitely cooler than ours.

I grew dozens of them on my land. When I first started out with them in pots, they grew very well in part shade. Later when I transplanted them to the ground when they were about 4 ft tall, they slowly regressed and died. Couldn't handle the Louisiana heat. When I watered them a lot to help them deal with water loss from so much sunshine, their roots rot even though they were planted on mound with well drained soil.

 

[Cajunrider]

here are some pictures of metasequoia growing in water (might be seasonal flooding im not sure) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/travel/2017-11/08/content_34267839.htm

you can google Water "Red Forest is located in Qingxi Country Park" for more pictures

​

I stand corrected. The dawn red wood in China obviously adapted to that environment. Perhaps some of us can try that with their red wood. The ones I got were seedlings all from California trees. They couldn't take that much moisture.
A little more digging showed that Dawn redwood in deed can take standing water. I am going to try that some day.

 

[19Mateo83]

I kept my two in 2 inches of water last summer and they exploded with growth. I treated them the same as some of my BC.

 

[Maiden69]

here are some pictures of metasequoia growing in water (might be seasonal flooding im not sure) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/travel/2017-11/08/content_34267839.htm

you can google Water "Red Forest is located in Qingxi Country Park" for more pictures

​

Definitely manmade, but looks amazing nevertheless.

Aerial Photography Of Water Forest In Qingpu Qingxi Country Park

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[Lutonian]

I stand corrected. The dawn red wood in China obviously adapted to that environment. Perhaps some of us can try that with their red wood. The ones I got were seedlings all from California trees. They couldn't take that much moisture.
A little more digging showed that Dawn redwood in deed can take standing water. I am going to try that some day.

They are a relatively common street tree in my town planted in mostly inappropriate places by the local council, they are some older ones planted around the lake in Wardown park (local Park) right on the bank half in the water this lake floods a bit regularly submerging the base frequently. so they must be able to stand flooding for short regular durations at least. I have a few dawns in pots, I might have to submerge one and compare to my BC which i keep flooded 12 months of the year even in winter.

 

[Clicio]

My Dawn Redwood is watered twice a day and it stands in a small pot.
It is thriving.