Aphid spray control?

hierophant

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Hi folks,

I've got some aphids living on my dwarf pom. Can I use a 1:2 white vinegar/water distillation to kill them? Is there something else specific I should be using? Any danger of harming my tree?

Thanks!
 

0soyoung

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The two best tools for dealing with aphids are
  1. your thumb and forefinger - pinch and squish them; you don't have to pinch so hard as to crush the leaf they are on.
  2. water jet from a garden hose - they will simply wash off
So, every time you water your plants, look for aphids on the underside of new leafs. Pinch those that won't simply wash off. Ants farm aphids for their honeydew (basically phloem sap). If you see ants on your tree, look for where they are going - water jet and/or pinch. There really is no need for nuclear bombs.
 

hierophant

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So, I've gone through three rounds of hosing/pinching so far, and I just keep finding more aphids. Is that normal? I know they reproduce quickly.

(The plant lives indoors.)

Is there a point at which I should hit the thing with a solution, or do I just keep pinching/hosing and assume it'll sort itself out?
 

davejg

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You could try a drop of washing up in a small sprayer, it clogs the breathers, just a tiny drop. Or neem oil.
 

Clicio

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So, I've gone through three rounds of hosing/pinching so far, and I just keep finding more aphids. Is that normal? I know they reproduce quickly.

(The plant lives indoors.)

Is there a point at which I should hit the thing with a solution, or do I just keep pinching/hosing and assume it'll sort itself out?
I've been using neem oil with success.
 

onlyrey

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Buy some lady bugs. I got 1,500 lady bugs from Amazon for $7+$6 shipping.. They arived in a mesh bag within a box... I threw them in the refrigerator for a month, pulled out half of them, kept the other for another month and pulled the rest... Only about 20% of them died . If there are yummy aphids on your tree, the lady bugs will make it a home, clean it up, and lay eggs to come back next season.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Buy some lady bugs. I got 1,500 lady bugs from Amazon for $7+$6 shipping.. They arived in a mesh bag within a box... I threw them in the refrigerator for a month, pulled out half of them, kept the other for another month and pulled the rest... Only about 20% of them died . If there are yummy aphids on your tree, the lady bugs will make it a home, clean it up, and lay eggs to come back next season.

It's an indoor tree :)
 

LanceMac10

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:eek::D:D:D:D
 

hierophant

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Oh, then I suggest getting some Fireflies for light. The reason the tree is sick is likely that it is not getting enough sunlight.

I've got it under two fluorescent T5s. The same setup has my indoor olive and cherry flourishing, and the pom only started looking bad when it came indoors for the winter and turned up aphids. (I suspect the aphids hitchhiked from some other plants that came inside at the same time and are located next to it.)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I've got it under two fluorescent T5s. The same setup has my indoor olive and cherry flourishing, and the pom only started looking bad when it came indoors for the winter and turned up aphids. (I suspect the aphids hitchhiked from some other plants that came inside at the same time and are located next to it.)

A 2 lamp T5 fixture is great to supplement light coming in from a window. If it is the only source of light, it would be considered medium to deep shade, when compared to outdoors. If you run the light about 18 hours a day, it will help, but at best 2 lamps is still considered fairly low light. I use 4 lamps of T5 for my shade loving orchids. I use 6 lamps or 8 lamp 48 inch T5 fixtures for my tropical trees that want half a day of sun if they were outdoors. I use 18 hour day length.

When is it time to spray with a chemical? When you get tired of repeatedly spraying with water, or with home remedies and still find you have aphids. While the home remedies can work, one needs more persistence than I have, and to be really effective you must spray daily with the home remedy. I resort to chemical warfare early in the game for insects. I have too many plants, and not enough time to fool around with sprays that are only marginally effective.

So go to a local big box nursery, and start reading labels. READ, READ, The label has a bunch of parts, as required by law, and it is ''technically'' against the law to use any pesticide in a manner different than the label direction. As a home owner or hobby grower, you won't be held to this requirement, but anyone professional, like a farmer, or nursery, one can get in big trouble not following the letter of the directions on the label. Manufacturers put a lot of work into making sure the labels are correct. (I'm a part owner, very small part, of a farm, so I must tell you to read labels) Regardless, it is really important you take the time to read and understand labels BEFORE you buy a pesticide. Make sure it is safe for where you want to use it. Big box stores and most full service nurseries will only sell products that are approved for home owners and hobby growers to use. Some are meant for indoors, some for outdoors. Read.

If you can take the plants outside on a mild day (best if a shady work area) and spray outdoors, allow the spray to dry, no drips, then bring inside - this is a way to use sprays that are labeled for lawn and garden use, but not labelled for indoor use.

Neem oil sprays - can work well, Neem is an antifeedant, causes insects to quit feeding. It also has other effects, including mild fungicidal effects. Not a bad product, available as an organic approved pesticide. Available in sprays for indoor use. Neem has a several day residual activity. Read the label to find out how often you need to re-apply.

Pyrethrin based insecticides - used to be excellent, the pure Pyrethrin is available as an approved for organic product. Bonide and other companies make versions that are sold at big box stores, approved for use in a residential home. Unfortunately, depending on where your aphids come from, there are populations of aphids that have developed some resistance to pyrethrins that have not been chemically altered. Piperonyl butoxide is commonly included in Pyrethrin formulations, the piperonyl in its various forms tends to amplify or potentiate the effectiveness of pyrethrins, helping to overcome any acquired pest resistance. One benefit of pyrethrin is that it has a very short life once diluted and sprayed. In the presence of sunlight it can break down in hours. It is a contact spray, you must cover every surface of the leaf & stems and branches to physically wet the aphids. It will not kill eggs, you must spray a second time in less than the number of days it take an aphid egg to hatch and the new young aphid to grow up enough to start laying eggs again. At 69 to 70 F (around 18 C) it take an aphid 7 days to go from egg to adult. At 80 F degrees (26 C) it only takes an aphid egg 4 days to a new adult ready to lay eggs. So in summer you need to spray every 3 to 4 days, in winter every 5 to 7 days. Key is you must spray at least twice. I spray as frequently as needed, and I keep repeating until I have sprayed an additional time after seeing no pests. For me, using the mix I use, this is usually 3 times if I start with a heavy infestation, Once cleaned up, you should be able to go months without reinfection. Every summer pests get into our trees while outdoors, or come into the house and recolonize our houseplants.

Ortho and many other chemical companies put out synthetic pyrethrin sprays which are chlorinated, you will recognize pyrethrin as part of the name of the active ingredient. These are more effective, my ''go to'' pyrethrin spray is one of these types.

Malathion - this is not intended to be used indoors - very potent noxious odor. It is an organophosphate, different mode of action than pyrethrin. Definitely not approved for organic use. But it is an ''old school'' broad spectrum pesticide. If you take your plants outside to spray them, this one is effective against aphids. Spray while outside, let the plants dry, return to the house. It does break down, its residue is active for ??? I think I remember 3 to 5 days, I have forgotten. Read the label before you buy.

There are several different pesticide formulations that use imidacloprid, which is a systemic. Definitely not for organic use. Imidacloprid is absorbed by the plant, moves through the plant's tissue, and renders the plant poisonous to any insect that bites the plant. It has an effective residual time that is several weeks, even months. Read the labels. Bonide has various versions, as does Bayer and Ortho. Some versions are granular, where you shake a measured amount on the surface of the potting media. Other formulations are liquid and can be sprayed on. Spend time reading labels at the store, choose the one that works well your your set up. I believe Bonide has a granular version for use indoors on house plants. But I am not certain the name. Bayer trade marked Merit as the active ingredient Imidacloprid. NOT FOR USE ON ANY PLANT USED FOR FOOD. This includes fruits or nuts. At least one year must pass before fruit or nuts are considered safe from a tree treated with imidacloprid.

Imidacloprid is popular because often one application per growing season is sufficient. It is the ''lazy gardener's'' pesticide. Unfortunately some insects have developed resistant populations. So there are situations where it won't work.

There are others, but this is a good start.
 

hierophant

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This was incredibly helpful -- thank you so much! (Side note: if you're on the IL-WI border, we must've been neighbors; I just moved down to Louisiana from Beloit.)

Re Lighting:

This was good insight! The pom is currently living under two fluorescent T5s directly under a large window. The light is on 18 hours a day.

For longer-term use, it sounds like I want to invest in a larger T5 setup. Can you recommend the most cost-efficient way to get a 6- or 8-lamp TN fixture? Either on a stand or ceiling-affixed.

Re Chemical:

I actually ended up spraying last week, and luckily, I intuited all your directions and followed them to the letter. All but a few of the aphids have died, the rest I picked off, and I'll be giving it another spray later this week to make sure I got everything.

A 2 lamp T5 fixture is great to supplement light coming in from a window....
 

hierophant

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Coda: I'd be open to non-fluorescents if there's a compelling case for them (e.g. LEDs that show actual white light, metal halides if they're really that much better and justify the energy cost, etc.)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@hierophant - Yep, I live straight east, almost in Lake Michigan, I'm a mile from the Lake. I live just south of Kenosha in Zion, IL.

Great, glad you got there.

I would hang my T-% fixtures on ropes, chains, or pulleys. I adjust the height of the fixture to be as close to the plants as possible. The ropes or chains let you adjust the height based on what you have underneath. Light intensity decreases by the square of the distance from the lamps, So a fixture at 2 feet will have one quarter of the intensity of a fixture only 1 foot from the leaves. You want as much of the foliage as possible to be as close as possible to the fixture. Feel the heat from the lamps, you want leaves as close to the lamps as possible without burning the leaves. I have fans running in my light set up to keep air moving, so I can keep my plants even closer to the lamps without burning.

IF your trees are all short, say less than 1 foot tall, you can get away with a 4 lamp fixture. If you have a mix of trees, some being rather tall, then an 8 lamp fixture will be better. Hang it just a few inches above the tallest tree, and understand that if your tree is 3 feet tall, the 4 inch tall plant next to the tree is in fairly heavy shade compared to the leaves of the tall tree that are just below the lamps.

You can raise most Ficus and other shade tolerant tropical trees under a 4 lamp T5, and taller trees would go under the 8 lamp.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Coda: I'd be open to non-fluorescents if there's a compelling case for them (e.g. LEDs that show actual white light, metal halides if they're really that much better and justify the energy cost, etc.)
I have had no recent experience with LED. LED technology has changed a lot in the last 5 years, my unsuccessful foray into LED was back in 2010, and they failed. I know they have changed a lot, but I have not done and experimenting lately, so I could not tell you.
 

hierophant

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@Leo in N E Illinois

Thanks for the quick response!

Very cool re: Kenosha -- I know that area well. I used to be a monitor for a state program and drove through there pretty frequently.

Good information re: the lighting fixtures! All my trees are around 1 foot, but I'll probably invest in the 8-bulb to ensure room for expansion.

Do you have a specific vendor you could recommend? There are about a hundred different fixtures on Amazon, but all of them look about like this and cost about this much: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M7NQYI...t=&hvlocphy=9025398&hvtargid=pla-318912203889
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Leo in N E Illinois

Thanks for the quick response!

Very cool re: Kenosha -- I know that area well. I used to be a monitor for a state program and drove through there pretty frequently.

Good information re: the lighting fixtures! All my trees are around 1 foot, but I'll probably invest in the 8-bulb to ensure room for expansion.

Do you have a specific vendor you could recommend? There are about a hundred different fixtures on Amazon, but all of them look about like this and cost about this much: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M7NQYI...t=&hvlocphy=9025398&hvtargid=pla-318912203889

The price in this Amazon add is half what I paid 3 years ago. I have not bought any recently, so I have no idea what the current market price is. Looks to be a good price.
 
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