Anyone else primarily use Cactus-Soil for bonsai?

[Carol 83]

It works fine for my jade and p.afra's. But that's all I use it for.

 

[エドガー]

Potting soil is a very very bad bonsai soil ingredient, particularly so in mixes that drain/dry quickly. Potting soil typically contains peat moss, which, once dried out, is extremely difficult to get wet all the way through again.
also when it is wet, it tends to hold on to too much water.

Thanks... yeah, I can understand that.
But then I get confused, because many famous bonsai people also add similar organics that is in potting-soil (peat moss, bark fines, etc.) into their mostly-aggregate bonsai soils... like Kuromatsu-Bonsai/Chasnsx, Herons Bonsai, and many others.
Of course, I know they don't add as much organic as cactus-mix, but they still add about 30% organic into their typical aggregate bonsai-mixes.

 

[エドガー]

I have used cactus soil (lava/bark mix) but I sifted out the fines. I used it mixed about 50% with my coarse DE. Worked pretty well but straight cactus had way too many fines of organic and that's never good.

Ah, okay... so you add more aggregate (DE) to the cactus mix. Thanks for the tip.
DE/8822 might be hard for me to find locally... would just adding 50% more pumice work too? I know pumice is porous and retains water a little, but probably not as water-absorbing as 8822 huh?

 

[エドガー]

Not sure why you think more organic must be better. Look at all the growers swearing by inorganic mix and getting good results. You can grow good plants in almost any soil - just need to adjust your care to suit the mix. If you can't adjust care to the mix then keep trying until you find a mix that suits your care regime.
Use what works well for you in your conditions and don't worry so much about the 'experts' who tell you you must use such and such.

I never thought adding more organic is better... hence, why I started this thread and was looking for insight and it was the ratio (2:1, cactus : potting) recommended to me by the jbp grower. I'm a n00b and just looking for help and insight.
Also, I am in hot hot dry SoCal, so I am a little wary of using an all 100% aggregate bonsai-mix.

Yeah, of course I've noticed most bonsai people use inorganic mixes with zero organic matter. But, I also assume they need to water daily (sometimes multiple times a day) and also fertilize much more frequently.

Yes, definitely.. just need to adjust care, watering and fert to suit the mix.

The larger and deeper the pot the less problems with drainage and aeration so you can get away with using lesser quality mix in larger pots. Take a look at what some wholesale nurseries use successfully. No need to waste expensive resources on larger grow pots.

Ah, okay, that makes sense... that all the plants in development-stages inside big plastic nursery pots or wood crates at bonsai-nurseries use what appears to be mostly organic soils (looks very similar to regular potting soil, garden soil, soil-conditioner). I even caught House of Bonsai using soil-conditioner (they were mixing it with aggregate) when they were making small juniper pre-bonsais for sale.

Thanks

 

[エドガー]

I have used cactus soil (lava/bark mix) but I sifted out the fines. I used it mixed about 50% with my coarse DE. Worked pretty well but straight cactus had way too many fines of organic and that's never good.

So... would a 1:1 of Cactus:882 be a decent mix?

 

[エドガー]

I use lava, pumice, 8822 and pine bark for my development trees.

What ratio or percentage of each?
1:1:1:1?

 

[MrWunderful]

What ratio or percentage of each?
1:1:1:1?

1:1 on lava and pumice, with enough 8822 and pine bark “to taste” as in, I dont have an actual “amount” just eyeball it and maybe throw some in a pot and water to see how much it holds.

 

[rockm]

Thanks... yeah, I can understand that.
But then I get confused, because many famous bonsai people also add similar organics that is in potting-soil (peat moss, bark fines, etc.) into their mostly-aggregate bonsai soils... like Kuromatsu-Bonsai/Chasnsx, Herons Bonsai, and many others.
Of course, I know they don't add as much organic as cactus-mix, but they still add about 30% organic into their typical aggregate bonsai-mixes.

Bark fines are not peat moss. Most people that are up to date with soil these days don't use peat moss.

 

[ABCarve]

The cactus people may want to reconsider their mix. This is a cactus I've had for 25+ years. The bump in the lower portion represents when I put it in bonsai mix (haydite, pumice, growstone). The upper portion represents 8 growing seasons as opposed to the lower portion being 17+. I know you're looking for a cheaper/more available alternative, but. It hasn't been repotted in those 8 years. I might also say is that it's getting scary to pick it up.

 

[エドガー]

I understand it's not ideal to use only/just cactus-mix (because of lots of organic material)... but, if you had to choose one, is 100% cactus-mix better than the 2:1 cactus-mix : potting-soil mix the jbp grower suggested to me?
Since 100%/all cactus-mix will obviously have less organic, I guess that would be better.

 

[エドガー]

This guy also says it's unadvisable to use 100% inorganic, particularly if you live in SoCal like me.

Kuromatsubonsai.com

Similar to House of Bonsai, Herons Bonsai, etc. ...they all use organic material and also peat moss.

I'm very wary to use 100% inorganic mix in SoCal... it's very dry and hot in the summer. I also don't want to water daily (I only water twice per week.. during late spring, summer and early fall). I also can't afford imported akadama (for +100 nursery pots).

Also not really motivated to take an additional trip/run (after the nursery to get cactus mix and/or pumice) to an autoparts store to pick up DE, and still have to sift it later... but, I'm very willing/curious to use DE in future re-pots if it is really that good.

 

[bonsaichile]

It

This guy also says it's unadvisable to use 100% inorganic, particularly if you live in SoCal like me.

Kuromatsubonsai.com

Similar to House of Bonsai, Herons Bonsai, etc. ...they all use organic material and also peat moss.

I'm very wary to use 100% inorganic mix in SoCal... it's very dry and hot in the summer. I also don't want to water daily (I only water twice per week.. during late spring, summer and early fall). I also can't afford imported akadama (for +100 nursery pots).

Also not really motivated to take an additional trip/run (after the nursery to get cactus mix and/or pumice) to an autoparts store to pick up DE, and still have to sift it later... but, I'm very willing/curious to use DE in future re-pots if it is really that good.

It sounds like you don't want to do too many things

 

[TN_Jim]

The cactus mix I’ve seen could use a bit more perlite perhaps. I potted other people’s cacti with it and added perlite.
What is that stuff really mostly -fine sphagnum moss, perlite, and sand added in some degree to a company’s potting mix a bit or such?

 

[エドガー]

This long-time BNut member switched to organic material and says it works good (lots of sand and fine organic material and peat moss):

100% diatomite for soil?

Optisorb about 4 hours after watering vs. Dry from the bag. Now what is awesome about DE is (if it is sifted) is the water soaks into the particle and the space between is damp but no water very aerated but cool and humid just what you want.

www.bonsainut.com

100% diatomite for soil?

Optisorb about 4 hours after watering vs. Dry from the bag. Now what is awesome about DE is (if it is sifted) is the water soaks into the particle and the space between is damp but no water very aerated but cool and humid just what you want.

www.bonsainut.com

Here’s another organic material user (i’m sure there’s many other people):

Cheapest home mixed bonsai soil from box stores

I do Napa or oil-Dri with mini pine bark and a bit of potting mix all from local retail and am happy with it so far.

www.bonsainut.com

 

[エドガー]

It sounds like you don't want to do too many things

Hahaha... don't get me wrong... I just like being most Efficient and cost-effective as possible. I'd rather be smart than waste time/money on things that aren't totally necessary.

But... I really want to try mile-high's mix of cactus-mix : DE (1:1 ratio) for future repotting. That sounds simple enough - just need to buy/mix 2 items, cactus-mix and DE.

This will also get me to a mix around 65% inorganic/aggregate and 35% organic-material (as a "buffer" and for extra water retention)... similar ratios and percentages to what kuromatsubonsai suggests for SoCal weather.
(there's about 30% pumice/aggregate in cactus-mix + 100% aggregate of using pure DE = 130% / 2 parts total = 65% aggregate/inorganic)

 

[エドガー]

The cactus mix I’ve seen could use a bit more perlite perhaps. I potted other people’s cacti with it and added perlite.
What is that stuff really mostly -fine sphagnum moss, perlite, and sand added in some degree to a company’s potting mix a bit or such?

Diff brands are vastly different. Read my earlier post on my take on the diff brands I've used.

But yes, some of the ones I've used (particularly the ones using perlite) look very identical to regular-old potting-soil... can't hardly detect perlite/aggregate in it.

I only use the ones with pumice in it - Kellogg and EB Stone. They look/feel completely different than other cactus-mixes or garden/potting-soils.

 

[Smoke]

.

 

[bonsaichile]

Hahaha... don't get me wrong... I just like being most Efficient and cost-effective as possible. I'd rather be smart than waste time/money on things that aren't totally necessary.

But... I really want to try mile-high's mix of cactus-mix : DE (1:1 ratio) for future repotting. That sounds simple enough - just need to buy/mix 2 items, cactus-mix and DE.

This will also get me to a mix around 65% inorganic/aggregate and 35% organic-material (as a "buffer" and for extra water retention)... similar ratios and percentages to what kuromatsubonsai suggests for SoCal weather.
(there's about 30% pumice/aggregate in cactus-mix + 100% aggregate of using pure DE = 130% / 2 parts total = 65% aggregate/inorganic)

Mind you, I think he has a different source for DE and does not use Napa 8822. He specified "coarse" DE. Particle size is important. Napa 8822 is fairly small

 

[ABCarve]

This guy also says it's unadvisable to use 100% inorganic, particularly if you live in SoCal like me.

Kuromatsubonsai.com

Similar to House of Bonsai, Herons Bonsai, etc. ...they all use organic material and also peat moss.

I'm very wary to use 100% inorganic mix in SoCal... it's very dry and hot in the summer. I also don't want to water daily (I only water twice per week.. during late spring, summer and early fall). I also can't afford imported akadama (for +100 nursery pots).

Also not really motivated to take an additional trip/run (after the nursery to get cactus mix and/or pumice) to an autoparts store to pick up DE, and still have to sift it later... but, I'm very willing/curious to use DE in future re-pots if it is really that good.

I think you need to pick a lane and go. You are experiencing a condition referred to as “paralysis by analysis”. Try something....see what happens. Experience starts when you begin.

 

[rockm]

Hahaha... don't get me wrong... I just like being most Efficient and cost-effective as possible. I'd rather be smart than waste time/money on things that aren't totally necessary.

But... I really want to try mile-high's mix of cactus-mix : DE (1:1 ratio) for future repotting. That sounds simple enough - just need to buy/mix 2 items, cactus-mix and DE.

This will also get me to a mix around 65% inorganic/aggregate and 35% organic-material (as a "buffer" and for extra water retention)... similar ratios and percentages to what kuromatsubonsai suggests for SoCal weather.
(there's about 30% pumice/aggregate in cactus-mix + 100% aggregate of using pure DE = 130% / 2 parts total = 65% aggregate/inorganic)

Ever hear of penny wise and pound foolish? You are jumping through hoops to justify using cactus soil. If you want to do it, do it. FWIW, Herons is not a great source of soil advice. They're not in your climate, nor are they really all that up on modern soil components. They use peat moss, etc, because it is cheap and available. And FWIW, the prepared bagged soils on the House of Bonsai site do not use potting soil. They use bark fines. The site also sells mostly inorganic soil components. Take from that what you will...

This is typical of basic soil. Developed by a professional in So. Cal.

Boon Bonsai Soil Mix

SuperFly Bonsai's Boon Mix This mix is the most commonly used and accepted mix by bonsai professionals around the world. Here in the United States it is known as "Boon Mix" after Boon Manakitivipart who pushed the mix to promote better bonsai tree health in America. Some also refer to it (in...

www.superflybonsai.com

For the best advice, I'd seek out a local club and see what they're using. I'd bet it's not all that expensive and they have done most of the legwork in gathering the ideal ingredients for your area.