Any idea whats wrong with this pitch pine?

[Dav4]

Check for spider mites...

 

[Cloudsgrow]

Personal instinct suspects fungus infection. Suggest copper or Daconil spray

Cant hurt to try, thank you for the suggestion

 

[Cloudsgrow]

Check for spider mites...

Will do, thank you

 

[Cloudsgrow]

There are some trees, not that I know anything about Red Pines, that you can't turn the foliage upside down or the foliage will die. Did you do much of this? Especially with reference to the tips that are doing the poorest? If sunny side up OK and sunny side down sick...

I always point tips up but when when the snow weight got to it the branches were pulled down quite a bit and stayed there due to the wire.. i didnt mess with it because i figured it wld be safer to leave it alone but thats a good point. Thanks for the suggestion, ill check to see if branches pointed further down are failing worse.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I would treat with either Daconil or Cleary's 3336. Both are broad spectrum fungicides with good track record of controlling needle cast and other needle affecting fungi. This is my main suspected cause of your problem.

Too much water, this could be part of the problem. This is my second choice as a possible cause.

I would at the same time treat for spider mite. It is tail end of winter, there should be no mites present right now, they could have done their damage in the last warm days of autumn. This is my third choice, as the timing is off. You should have seen mite damage when it was warmer outside, not have it appear in late winter.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

Will do, thank you

No mites

 

[Cloudsgrow]

I would treat with either Daconil or Cleary's 3336. Both are broad spectrum fungicides with good track record of controlling needle cast and other needle affecting fungi. This is my main suspected cause of your problem.

Too much water, this could be part of the problem. This is my second choice as a possible cause.

I would at the same time treat for spider mite. It is tail end of winter, there should be no mites present right now, they could have done their damage in the last warm days of autumn. This is my third choice, as the timing is off. You should have seen mite damage when it was warmer outside, not have it appear in late winter.

Im definitely gonna give the fungicide a try, thank you for the suggestions, i havent been watering it since its a very drought tolerant species and we've been getting plenty of rain so i dont know if its more likely to be over or under watered. In the summer i obviously water everyday but im not always the best at gauging water needs in the winter.. the trees i have in cold storage i water about once every two weeks and theyre happy. I have much less experience with pines though. Thank you again.

 

[bwaynef]

Transplanted this pitchpine early last spring, its in a good bonsai soil mix, pine bark was the only organic additive i used. I didn't bare root it, disturbed the roots as little as possible. Im in upstate NY. This pine has been doing great until the past month.. even pushed out a bunch of new growth after the transplant. Some of the branches are biting the dust now but whats really concerning me is that all the needles are getting small yellow dots. I absolutely love this guy and I'd be ashamed if he didnt make it.

The tiny yellow dots look like a sucking insect to me. Could be the beginning of fungus, ...and its almost time to treat for fungus anyway, so I'd probably treat for both.

Could you tell us more about the soil?

One thing I'd do regardless of what the culprit is, point the growing tips up.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Did you keep this tree in storage as well? It might have not gone dormant, and when we take away sunlight.. It'll eat itself basically. Health will decline rapidly at that point.
I personally have just five years of pine-rearing experience, and foliage going floppy was usually the worst sign. Good to read you haven't reached that point.

Still, I agree that close up pictures would surely help. A piece of paper behind the foliage will help your camera with focusing.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

No problem always glad to help if I can

The tiny yellow dots look like a sucking insect to me. Could be the beginning of fungus, ...and its almost time to treat for fungus anyway, so I'd probably treat for both.

Could you tell us more about the soil?

One thing I'd do regardless of what the culprit is, point the growing tips up.

The soil is equal parts akadama, pumice and lava rock with some pine bark from that species. The root ball was kept in a decent amount of its natural soil when I dug him up because i know pines dont like their roots messed with and i wanted to maintain some of the natural bacteria that pines need. That original soil only makes up maybe 30% of whats in that pot and it was relatively lose, i didnt do any combing, just kept whatever a little shaking wouldn't remove. I turned the tips up and sprayed with copper this morning, also turned the pot so the needles point toward the sun more. Thank you for the suggestions, i really appreciate how helpful this community has been, I knew bonsai attracted good people but this level of response is impressive and very much appreciated.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

Did you keep this tree in storage as well? It might have not gone dormant, and when we take away sunlight.. It'll eat itself basically. Health will decline rapidly at that point.
I personally have just five years of pine-rearing experience, and foliage going floppy was usually the worst sign. Good to read you haven't reached that point.

Still, I agree that close up pictures would surely help. A piece of paper behind the foliage will help your camera with focusing.

I posted a bunch of other pics in a reply about a hour ago, i was hoping they wld be easy to view for everyone, not sure if u should have just added them at the top.

I didnt put the pine in storage because i had confidence it could handle the occasional 0 degree temps we get here seeing as pitch only grows in tall cliffs with its roots often no deeper than a foot or two but idk maybe i was wrong. Thanks for the tips and ideas, very appreciated.

 

[bwaynef]

I'm not positive that it ISN'T a sucking insect, but I'm leaning more toward fungus with the banding on a lot of the needles. A lot of the time, fungus is soil related. What you described is what I would NOT do. I suspect not removing a portion of the old soil, and not combing out that part is leading to a weak tree, which is leading to susceptibility to fungus. And, pine bark often holds too much water, particularly for a pine that likes to stay dry ...it seals it that you're dealing with fungus.

I don't suspect you'll be able to treat this issue with fungicide. I'd half bareroot this tree ...and consider upping the pumice content (and size). I think potting it into straight pumice after the HBR might be a good idea.

 

[Dav4]

I'm not positive that it ISN'T a sucking insect, but I'm leaning more toward fungus with the banding on a lot of the needles. A lot of the time, fungus is soil related. What you described is what I would NOT do. I suspect not removing a portion of the old soil, and not combing out that part is leading to a weak tree, which is leading to susceptibility to fungus. And, pine bark often holds too much water, particularly for a pine that likes to stay dry ...it seals it that you're dealing with fungus.

I don't suspect you'll be able to treat this issue with fungicide. I'd half bareroot this tree ...and consider upping the pumice content (and size). I think potting it into straight pumice after the HBR might be a good idea.

I agree with everything above. Pitch pines are very drought tolerant and 30 % native soil with added bark to the aggregate may or may not be the ultimate problem. The new buds look healthy, which is promising. I'd definitely re-pot with the goal of removing as much of the field soil as possible and not disturbing any roots inhabiting the aggregate.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

I'm not positive that it ISN'T a sucking insect, but I'm leaning more toward fungus with the banding on a lot of the needles. A lot of the time, fungus is soil related. What you described is what I would NOT do. I suspect not removing a portion of the old soil, and not combing out that part is leading to a weak tree, which is leading to susceptibility to fungus. And, pine bark often holds too much water, particularly for a pine that likes to stay dry ...it seals it that you're dealing with fungus.

I don't suspect you'll be able to treat this issue with fungicide. I'd half bareroot this tree ...and consider upping the pumice content (and size). I think potting it into straight pumice after the HBR might be a good idea.

The added pine bark was only maybe 5% of the total soil added but alright, cant say that doesn't seem like a reasonable concern. You think i should wait tip march or april for the repot or just go for it? I did spray down the root base with copper hoping the coming rain will slowly rinse it down through the roots but if you guys think its better to just go for a repot now I'll take the advice before i risk watching it decline much further.
Thanks everyone again for your time.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

I agree with everything above. Pitch pines are very drought tolerant and 30 % native soil with added bark to the aggregate may or may not be the ultimate problem. The new buds look healthy, which is promising. I'd definitely re-pot with the goal of removing as much of the field soil as possible and not disturbing any roots inhabiting the aggregate.

Whats your take on when wld be the best time to repot? Do an emergency repot now or wait til march/april?

 

[Dav4]

Whats your take on when wld be the best time to repot? Do an emergency repot now or wait til march/april?

The ideal time to re-pot pines is when the buds start to swell... but if you can keep the tree above 40 F and give it as much sun as possible, I'd do it sooner then later

 

[Dav4]

The added pine bark was only maybe 5% of the total soil added but alright, cant say that doesn't seem like a reasonable concern. You think i should wait tip march or april for the repot or just go for it? I did spray down the root base with copper hoping the coming rain will slowly rinse it down through the roots but if you guys think its better to just go for a repot now I'll take the advice before i risk watching it decline much further.
Thanks everyone again for your time.

Was the copper treatment formulated and labeled to be a root drench?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Looks fungal to me. Let's see how the copper treatment goes

 

[bwaynef]

The fungus issue is in the needles. The tree is in a weakened condition because of the roots, ...which leads to its current fungal condition. The (bad) fungus isn't in the roots. The fungus is present because the roots are in a sub-optimal environment ...and the tree is weak because of that.

If you're going to tree the fungus, you need to spray the foliage.

 

[Cloudsgrow]

The ideal time to re-pot pines is when the buds start to swell... but if you can keep the tree above 40 F and give it as much sun as possible, I'd do it sooner then later

Alright, ill do my best. Thank you very much for your thoughts and time