small trees
Chumono
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Post edited. I didn't mean it particularly negatively and I don't want to start any unnecessary trouble. Cheers!
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Another money laundering auction?
- Thread starter small trees
- Start date
lordy
Omono
I actually saw both of those and think that BOTH sellers could well be members here. Perhaps we will learn more in coming days.
twisted trees
Omono
The Korean juniper was a $20 tree asking way too much. This is a good tree and a more unusual variety of maple. While it might be too pricey, shohin get a good price on Ebay. I think it could be more realistically put in the $200-$300 range. But, as PT Barnum said...What do you guys think? A tree that could be made in just a few years. Can't be real, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHOHIN-BONS...535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d18a76d8f
edit: the price on the above auction makes the price on this stump seem pretty appealing (this one isn't that bad if you want a monster finished tree):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTSTANDING...788?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e8c49d1c
double edit: hope this isn't someone's tree from hereI just don't see why it is fetching the price unless there is a name attached to it.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
I don't think the second is so overpriced, it does have size and a nice base and really could be a good tree.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I grew a shishigashira for 6-7 years and it never got 10" tall from a 3-year old graft. It might have had 5 branches when I decided they weren't for me and sold it several years ago.
The listed tree is pretty well-grown to have that nebari and proportions. It takes time, skill, and attention to do this with any tree, particularly a shishigashira.
The listed tree is pretty well-grown to have that nebari and proportions. It takes time, skill, and attention to do this with any tree, particularly a shishigashira.
Don Blackmond
Omono
The shishigashira is real, not fake. They grow slowly, especially as shohin. The only way you make that tree in just a few years is if its by airlayer and you make a bunch and pick the one that turned out best. If they were easy to make and only took a few years to produce what you see in that auction, then there would be hundreds available at low prices. Trees like this are not readily available and cheap.
I'm not picking on the OP. Please understand that. I'm simply trying to point out what I believe is a common misconception in any hobby/art: "i'm not paying for it when i can make one just as nice". I do the same thing. I do woodworking as a hobby. My wife is always showing me furniture etc she wants to buy and I'm always saying I can build one better than that for way less money. The facts are: I probably can't and I don't have the time.
In the case of the shishigashira, I don't think people fully appreciate the time and resources required to achieve the result. Its not a 2-3 year project. You don't simply make it from seed or cutting and have the compact, developed tree in short duration. If done quickly its by layer and its one of many made only to have a few that turn out well. If you made the tree you probably would not give it away.
Sorry for the sermon. I'll stop now.
Neither tree referenced is mine. I do know the seller of the stump and he is a member here. I'm sure he will chime in on his listing.
I'm not picking on the OP. Please understand that. I'm simply trying to point out what I believe is a common misconception in any hobby/art: "i'm not paying for it when i can make one just as nice". I do the same thing. I do woodworking as a hobby. My wife is always showing me furniture etc she wants to buy and I'm always saying I can build one better than that for way less money. The facts are: I probably can't and I don't have the time.
In the case of the shishigashira, I don't think people fully appreciate the time and resources required to achieve the result. Its not a 2-3 year project. You don't simply make it from seed or cutting and have the compact, developed tree in short duration. If done quickly its by layer and its one of many made only to have a few that turn out well. If you made the tree you probably would not give it away.
Sorry for the sermon. I'll stop now.
Neither tree referenced is mine. I do know the seller of the stump and he is a member here. I'm sure he will chime in on his listing.
What do you guys think? A tree that could be made in just a few years. Can't be real, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHOHIN-BONS...535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d18a76d8f
edit: the price on the above auction makes the price on this stump seem pretty appealing (this one isn't that bad if you want a monster finished tree):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTSTANDING...788?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e8c49d1c
double edit: hope this isn't someone's tree from here
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I'm planning on performing a bunch of air layers on a truly ugly andscape Shishishagira this spring with the hope of producing something along the lines of what's in the auction. Based on Brian's experience, it sounds like a ten year project....$500 sounds about right for 10 years of work.
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It looks like several people posted while I was composing mine!
Really?? I think you are way off base here...there are 64 bids on this tree...seems like many folks must like it plenty. It was originally listed at $99...a very fair price for what it is!! Demand drove up the price!!!! not greed like you imply??
Ok...GeorgiaBonsai...I know you are new to bonsai so let's try a little exercise...Let's imagine what went into getting this tree to its current state....
1. Sourcing the original material...Shishigashira is not that easy to find and generally not cheap and a slow grower due to its dwarf tendencies...but makes very nice small trees. ( I think you are learning first hand the difficulties in sourcing good material)
2. (at least one season)to select and airlayer a branch with good potential...chances are very good that it took multiple airlayers to get just one with good roots all the way around....by definition there are no seedlings available for culitvars...they have to be propagated by cutting or airlayer.
3. (at least one season) to let the airlayer get healthy and vigorous.
4. (At least 5 seasons) To develop the branching...notice the internode length on the branches...very short...it takes many growing seasons to grow branches like this...especially on a dwarf cultivar.
So, you tell me, that is about 7 growing seasons...maybe more, maybe one or two less, in the just the development of this tree...add in the pot and daily care for 7 years...if you had grown it and listed it...how much profit would be in it for you???
Obviously there are quite a few folks on the demand end that appreciate the time and effort that has gone into this tree. If trees like this were easy to obtain its obvious they would not bring prices like this...granted buying trees is a very individual thing...I wouldn't pay the $500+ that it is at now but I am sure glad there are folks out there that will!
Hang in there and keep searching!
John
Really?? I think you are way off base here...there are 64 bids on this tree...seems like many folks must like it plenty. It was originally listed at $99...a very fair price for what it is!! Demand drove up the price!!!! not greed like you imply??
Ok...GeorgiaBonsai...I know you are new to bonsai so let's try a little exercise...Let's imagine what went into getting this tree to its current state....
1. Sourcing the original material...Shishigashira is not that easy to find and generally not cheap and a slow grower due to its dwarf tendencies...but makes very nice small trees. ( I think you are learning first hand the difficulties in sourcing good material)
2. (at least one season)to select and airlayer a branch with good potential...chances are very good that it took multiple airlayers to get just one with good roots all the way around....by definition there are no seedlings available for culitvars...they have to be propagated by cutting or airlayer.
3. (at least one season) to let the airlayer get healthy and vigorous.
4. (At least 5 seasons) To develop the branching...notice the internode length on the branches...very short...it takes many growing seasons to grow branches like this...especially on a dwarf cultivar.
So, you tell me, that is about 7 growing seasons...maybe more, maybe one or two less, in the just the development of this tree...add in the pot and daily care for 7 years...if you had grown it and listed it...how much profit would be in it for you???
Obviously there are quite a few folks on the demand end that appreciate the time and effort that has gone into this tree. If trees like this were easy to obtain its obvious they would not bring prices like this...granted buying trees is a very individual thing...I wouldn't pay the $500+ that it is at now but I am sure glad there are folks out there that will!
Hang in there and keep searching!
John
davetree
Omono
I don't think it's overpriced at all. It's a really good tree, besides being an unusual variety. If anyone on this forum has an equivalent that has taken just a few years I would like to see it.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Unlike the prior auction tree, this is a real bonsai that has obviously been created by a skilled enthusiast/pro. It is not a mass-produced Korean or Chinese tree. Whether it is worth the price or not is completely up to you, but it looks like the real deal to me.
discusmike
Omono
I found a large landscape lions mane about six yrs ago, priced at 600 $, I thought it was way overpriced, after having similiar exp. As Brian, I should have bought the tree and layered it, these trees grow at a snails pace, atleast while they are young.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Agreed...nice movement in that trunk and (as the seller pointed out in the listing) not grafted.
I don't know if I'd be willing to pay that price without seeing the material in person, but it could easily be worth the amount asked.
Chris
bonsaibp
Omono
Knowing where the first tree is coming from I'd be willing to bet that it is even better then the picture.
If this were just a regular Japanese Maple it would be a different story but as has been stated it's not and there is a lot of time and skilled technique put into this tree, which to me shows. It has perfect proportions - 6" tall with a 1" trunk and a really nice nebari. It is obvisiouly healthy and just waiting to burst out with new growth. I hope someone on here buys it so we can see it in leaf and flower.
If this were just a regular Japanese Maple it would be a different story but as has been stated it's not and there is a lot of time and skilled technique put into this tree, which to me shows. It has perfect proportions - 6" tall with a 1" trunk and a really nice nebari. It is obvisiouly healthy and just waiting to burst out with new growth. I hope someone on here buys it so we can see it in leaf and flower.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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The shishigashira sold for $710....
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small trees
Chumono
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Well, I guess I should clarify a couple things.
1) I actually really like the stump in the second link, and would consider buying it if I were able to see it in person, as someone else said. I just saw it after posting the first, and meant the statement in a different way than it came out. It was late, have mercy on me. lol
2) While I see what you guys are saying, I guess I personally wouldn't pay that much for the tree. I saw it a few days ago and thought the price was a bit high then. I think this probably stems from me being somewhat fixated on something like Smoke's 'Pigs' and the creepy, halloween-night silhouette that they give off as the most attractive shohin. Again, personal preference I suppose.
Either way, no offense meant at all to either owner, and we learn every day.
1) I actually really like the stump in the second link, and would consider buying it if I were able to see it in person, as someone else said. I just saw it after posting the first, and meant the statement in a different way than it came out. It was late, have mercy on me. lol
2) While I see what you guys are saying, I guess I personally wouldn't pay that much for the tree. I saw it a few days ago and thought the price was a bit high then. I think this probably stems from me being somewhat fixated on something like Smoke's 'Pigs' and the creepy, halloween-night silhouette that they give off as the most attractive shohin. Again, personal preference I suppose.
Either way, no offense meant at all to either owner, and we learn every day.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
The difference between a shig and a trident is enormous. I wouldn't pay 710.00 for it. If I was 25 years old again I might think about starting my own or twenty.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
hmmm.....all the bids were private buyers with identity hidden. Maybe the OP is not that far off the mark?
Don Blackmond
Omono
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
...............
Is 5 a lucky number in the Mafia?
Seriously? Money laundering?
As pointed out earlier, this maple was bid up by people who valued it at that price. I know the seller, and can personally testify that they were very surprised by the outcome of the sale. Find me another shohin JM ( let alone a hard to find cultivar) with age and development like this one for less.
As pointed out earlier, this maple was bid up by people who valued it at that price. I know the seller, and can personally testify that they were very surprised by the outcome of the sale. Find me another shohin JM ( let alone a hard to find cultivar) with age and development like this one for less.
