Annealing copper wire at home?
- Thread starter Krone
- Start date
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
cheap_walmart_art
Omono
The Appalachian Bonsai Guy does a video on annealing copper. Found it in a thread after doing a quick search of the forum, keyword "annealing copper."
Wilson
Masterpiece
I anneal out back with a nice bonfire, makes for a productive chilled out evening.
eryk2kartman
Chumono
I did that too,
Had a lot of copper wire left form house renovation, good way to reuse some of it.
Had a lot of copper wire left form house renovation, good way to reuse some of it.
Wee
Chumono
I have done it and the wire worked very well.....That said I do not remember which post I used as a guideline. I would have to research it all over again.
Brian
Brian
TN_Jim
Omono
I've had much success with the fire pit. I've read others having success in the grill. However, I recently came into a grip of 5mm and the grill did not cut it -almost got there I think, but not quite.
Next step with this heavy gauge is back to the raging fire pit using straightened 3-4' pieces and I think that'll get it...if it would ever quit raining.
...I got that grill pretty damn hot too
Next step with this heavy gauge is back to the raging fire pit using straightened 3-4' pieces and I think that'll get it...if it would ever quit raining.
...I got that grill pretty damn hot too
River's Edge
Masterpiece
I have annealed my own wire of various thickness, lots of # 12 and #14 with plastic stripped from the normal household wire! it works well, not the quality i prefer for finer application though. i typically use it for rough wiring, initial wiring of developing and training material.
The process i use is to wrap in loose coil around an ice cream pail for shape. Usually 100 ft coil, then place on the gas barbecue. Run temp to 600 F for 20 to 30 minutes until the wire coil glows red hot. I then drench the wire in cold water. Drop it into a pail. I have heard that you can simply let it cool off with similar or better results. I tried both ways and could not notice a difference, so i have stuck with the quickest, most convenient method.
Works for me!
Straightening and re-annealing used copper has been less satisfactory but is doable.
The best copper wire i have used is sold by Jim Gremel in California. Aluminum has been obtained from several sources and is much more readily available.
The process i use is to wrap in loose coil around an ice cream pail for shape. Usually 100 ft coil, then place on the gas barbecue. Run temp to 600 F for 20 to 30 minutes until the wire coil glows red hot. I then drench the wire in cold water. Drop it into a pail. I have heard that you can simply let it cool off with similar or better results. I tried both ways and could not notice a difference, so i have stuck with the quickest, most convenient method.
Works for me!
Straightening and re-annealing used copper has been less satisfactory but is doable.
The best copper wire i have used is sold by Jim Gremel in California. Aluminum has been obtained from several sources and is much more readily available.
Attachments
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
You just need to get the wire to dull red temp then take it out and let it cool. Cool slow or fast - does not seem to make much difference. Just make sure the wire has cooled properly before trying to pick it up.
Reusing copper: The hardest part is straightening the kinks out. For thinner wire I grab each end in pliers then jerk hard to straighten the wire. Thicker wire may need to hold one end in a bench vise to get a better pull. Thickest wires need to be annealed to be soft enough to straighten then anneal again to soften before use.
We have a wood heater to heat the house. Perfect for annealing copper wire. Outside fire can be used. Gas bbq may be suitable for small amounts. My gas blowtorch took too long to treat the entire length of a wire and left uneven hard and softer parts so not really suitable.
My tips:
Tie short lengths into small bundles so they are easier to handle in and out of the fire.
Longer lengths are tied into bundles then bent in half to fit into the fire.
Longer lengths are coiled in convenient sized loops then a few loops tied into a bundle for ease of handling while annealing.
Beware of leaving wire in the fire for too long or too hot. Too hot and the wire ends up brittle and just breaks while using it. A bit hotter an it will melt in the fire. Dull red is enough.
Have a long iron bar to lift wires out of the fire when they are done. Gloves are advisable to protect hands as it gets quite hot near a suitably warm fire while trying to snag that bundle of wire.
Reusing copper: The hardest part is straightening the kinks out. For thinner wire I grab each end in pliers then jerk hard to straighten the wire. Thicker wire may need to hold one end in a bench vise to get a better pull. Thickest wires need to be annealed to be soft enough to straighten then anneal again to soften before use.
We have a wood heater to heat the house. Perfect for annealing copper wire. Outside fire can be used. Gas bbq may be suitable for small amounts. My gas blowtorch took too long to treat the entire length of a wire and left uneven hard and softer parts so not really suitable.
My tips:
Tie short lengths into small bundles so they are easier to handle in and out of the fire.
Longer lengths are tied into bundles then bent in half to fit into the fire.
Longer lengths are coiled in convenient sized loops then a few loops tied into a bundle for ease of handling while annealing.
Beware of leaving wire in the fire for too long or too hot. Too hot and the wire ends up brittle and just breaks while using it. A bit hotter an it will melt in the fire. Dull red is enough.
Have a long iron bar to lift wires out of the fire when they are done. Gloves are advisable to protect hands as it gets quite hot near a suitably warm fire while trying to snag that bundle of wire.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Yes, don’t let it get bright red or start to turn white or it will be brittle and break. Takes 3-5 minute depending on gauge.
I quench mine in a 5-gallon bucket of water to get the ash and flakes off.
Oh, maybe you ought to use it within the next 3 million years...
That soon? Make sure it’s cooled down first!
Seriously, once annealed, the wire stays dolt until it’s bent. I had some that I bought over 30 years ago, in the bottom of a drawer of a chest that had been sitting in the basement. Good as new!
Thanks. I am asking because i would like to make a stock of annealed wire, so i don't have to deal with this process every time i plan to use it.
Another thing, what amount of wire do you recommend of annealing at a time? Should i cut it to smaller bundles? I will probably buy larger bulks (couple of kilos per gauge), because i can get them on discount if i buy larger quantities.
Another thing, what amount of wire do you recommend of annealing at a time? Should i cut it to smaller bundles? I will probably buy larger bulks (couple of kilos per gauge), because i can get them on discount if i buy larger quantities.
Krone, I don’t anneal my wire myself. But I have talked about it with Jim Gremel, a retired aerospace engineer who makes the best annealed wire that I’m aware of. He anneals each gauge separately in a kiln. He buys in bulk, creates spools of wire based upon weight, then annealed them. He has run tests where he annealed each gauge at different temperatures and different times then tested the amount of “softness” with a strain gauge. He has determined exactly how long and at what temperature each gauge of wire should be heated to attain optimal results. I have been to his place, and seen the kiln.
He maintains an inventory of annealed wire to fill orders from his customers. Sometimes, he runs out, so as I customer, I might have to wait until he processes a fresh batch.
He’s not getting any younger, so I keep a supply on hand equal to about 2 years of my expected usage.
There are other vendors who do a pretty good job of annealing wire. Even though Jim was an aerospace engineer, it ain’t “rocket science”. Although Jim did go through a bit of trouble to test out his methodology.
Some vendors sell by weight, others by length of wire in the coil.
I do conifirs, and while I keep all gauges of wire on hand, I use a lot of 14, 16, and 18 gauge. I usually order twice as much of those as I would 8, 10, and 12. I do keep a little 4 and 6 around, but I hardly ever have to use it. At the other end, I have some 20 and 22, those I use for guywires.
Your usage may vary.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
It’s good to have plenty of wire on hand. It does work-harden, so store it where it’s not going to get bumped or moved around very much until you’re ready to use it. Kathy Shaner has suggested wrapping copper wire in bubble-wrap to travel to workshops because just riding around in the car work hardens it. I haven’t noticed, but I do now cringe a little when I hear it rattling around in the back of my car. Some people anneal heavier gauges in straight sections so it doesn’t stiffen up by uncoiling it. It would make storing it so much easier.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
If you purchase copper wire for bonsai, check if it is already annealed. Some sources sell lovely soft wire ready to use. Other sources are hard and need to be annealed before use. If you can find or get recommendation of reliable source of soft copper get that and save yourself a lot of work.
Adair has already said that annealed wire stays soft indefinitely so do as much as you want at a time. The amount will depend entirely on how many trees you have that need wire and how much you use wire rather than pruning for shape. I only anneal in winter when we have the wood heater burning so I do several batches through winter to last me more than a year.
I anneal small rolls and also shorter, convenient lengths. whatever suits your needs.
