anatomy of a bud

[jimlau]

I have some long, new shoots that are already back-budding on a trident maple.

could anyone let me know if the highlighted area is part of the bud,, or if it is only a leaf-like element that can be removed. I ask because I need to know how big to make the hole for a thread graft.

thanks.

 

[leatherback]

That is a bud in my eyes. You might want to leave it.

 

[misfit11]

Yes. Those are buds. They arise in the leaf axils. You get two buds per node.

Cory

 

[jimlau]

Yes. Those are buds. They arise in the leaf axils. You get two buds per node.

Cory

so it's kind of too late to use this branch for a thread graft, as the hole diameter would be double the branch diameter?

 

[ColinFraser]

Wouldn't a thread graft be done before any of the buds on the whip begin to swell; i.e. Before the tree comes out of dormancy . . . ?

 

[seth ellwood]

Yes, I always do my thread grafting just as I see movement on the buds in spring and even then you do not get 100% success. not sure how a late spring/early summer thread graft would fair.

 

[sikadelic]

Wouldn't a thread graft be done before any of the buds on the whip begin to swell; i.e. Before the tree comes out of dormancy . . . ?

All I can vouch for at this point is my 2 failed grafts on an Arakawa. I know it was my first time so I am sure it wasn't PERFECT, however, I was very careful and feel like they were done well. Both were executed in full leaf and both failed miserably. I will not be attempting anymore unless it is before the buds break.

 

[0soyoung]

All I can vouch for at this point is my 2 failed grafts on an Arakawa. I know it was my first time so I am sure it wasn't PERFECT, however, I was very careful and feel like they were done well. Both were executed in full leaf and both failed miserably. I will not be attempting anymore unless it is before the buds break.

Why did they fail? Did you damage the bark on the thread? What?

I tried thread grafts a bit late on a couple of zelkova last year and was shocked to see that somehow I had damaged the bark on the tread.

I'm just curious and wanting to 'pool' info.

 

[Eric Group]

Wouldn't a thread graft be done before any of the buds on the whip begin to swell; i.e. Before the tree comes out of dormancy . . . ?

In short, from what I know of them- YES. no leaves= smaller hole needed to thread it through the trunk/ branch without damaging buds of new growth. Also- longer time in the growing season for it to heal. If you start one now- especially that far a North- your growing season remaining is so short, who knows if it would even start to take before winter...

 

[Eric Group]

All I can vouch for at this point is my 2 failed grafts on an Arakawa. I know it was my first time so I am sure it wasn't PERFECT, however, I was very careful and feel like they were done well. Both were executed in full leaf and both failed miserably. I will not be attempting anymore unless it is before the buds break.

How did it "fail" exactly? Just curious- I have one going on a JM right now and have noticed slow growth in that tree this year. No other noticeable signs of stress, just sluggish growth a which is frustrating when trying to seal a thread graft obviously!!

 

[sikadelic]

The first one I tried was right before leaves popped. I took pictures of that but not the second effort....the pics you see in the thread are from the first try. Basically, I had selected a branch that was a casualty of old man winter. It was already dead and I didn't know. As the tree started to wake up I could plainly tell the color was off and it was a lost cause.

Fast forward to the second time (no pics of this attempt) and I found a nice healthy branch. I trimmed off the existing leaves and threaded it through and sealed with cut snot. I felt really good about that one but it never showed new growth. Now it is all dried up and black. I didn't crack the branch where the scion emerged or anything from the bending process. I really have no clue how it failed but I would sure love to know.

The thread on the tree is here http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/my-arakawa.18392/

 

[jimlau]

I have done elm and mulberry thread grafts this late. the tree in question has no older branches. these are all new shoots I wanted to use for branch placement this year.

 

[Cypress187]

Can't a 'non-taken' graft just survive the winter? It's just a branch in a hole.